Horses in elk country

[2rocky]

Bob, try out a pack trip in the summer before you try to pull off a Horseback hunt. That will give you a chance to concentrate on what the horses, and your camp needs with long, warm days., ample grazing and a minimum of potential wrecks. If you love the summer pack trip, THEN you can add Hunting, cold weather icy trails, feed runs out to the trailhead, cutting, hauling, drying firewood, meat retrievals and sketchy places to ride/lead a packhorse.

I'm a lifelong horse owner and rider, and been taking horses into the mountains after deer and elk since 2005. I've worked as a guide and packer in 3 states and hunted in 9 Western States. If you search my posts, you will see plenty of horse packing pictures...


As for resources, There is a young guy in Montana who has some good videos about his horseback and hunting experiences, MATHER outdoors


This should be your Bible

https://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270

This was one of my favorite hunts in a new spot

 

[Lilhowie83]

I agree with everything @2rocky said, especially getting Smoke Elsers book. It is the Bible on horse and mule packing. I think you said you were in the Missoula area, if you can, I would reccomend getting a hold of Jordan Knudsen and attend one of his packing classes. He was a pupil of Smoke Elsers and taught the annual packing class with Smoke every year and now continues to teach the class every year since Smoke quit teaching it in 2021.

404 | Heart Bar-K

www.heartbar-k.com

 

[Buckskinbob]

It does look very similar, but not the same! I’m in Bozeman, picture in the Gallatin Range. Where ya heading? Good luck with the move!

South of butte, thanks. im excited I've been in missoula my whole life, but I can't take it any more, to much dog s#^$ and not enough elk!

 

[Buckskinbob]

I agree with everything @2rocky said, especially getting Smoke Elsers book. It is the Bible on horse and mule packing. I think you said you were in the Missoula area, if you can, I would reccomend getting a hold of Jordan Knudsen and attend one of his packing classes. He was a pupil of Smoke Elsers and taught the annual packing class with Smoke every year and now continues to teach the class every year since Smoke quit teaching it in 2021.

404 | Heart Bar-K

www.heartbar-k.com

Thank you!

 

[mtmuley]

South of butte, thanks. im excited I've been in missoula my whole life, but I can't take it any more, to much dog s#^$ and not enough elk!

Not enough elk? mtmuley

 

[Buckskinbob]

Bob, try out a pack trip in the summer before you try to pull off a Horseback hunt. That will give you a chance to concentrate on what the horses, and your camp needs with long, warm days., ample grazing and a minimum of potential wrecks. If you love the summer pack trip, THEN you can add Hunting, cold weather icy trails, feed runs out to the trailhead, cutting, hauling, drying firewood, meat retrievals and sketchy places to ride/lead a packhorse.

I'm a lifelong horse owner and rider, and been taking horses into the mountains after deer and elk since 2005. I've worked as a guide and packer in 3 states and hunted in 9 Western States. If you search my posts, you will see plenty of horse packing pictures...


As for resources, There is a young guy in Montana who has some good videos about his horseback and hunting experiences, MATHER outdoors


This should be your Bible

https://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270

This was one of my favorite hunts in a new spot

Thanks!

 

[Buckskinbob]

Not enough elk? mtmuley

There are plenty around sure, I don't enjoy hunting around missoula much though, and I drive to georgetown every weekend during the winter, ill be closer now.

 

[mtmuley]

There are plenty around sure, I don't enjoy hunting around missoula much though, and I drive to georgetown every weekend during the winter, ill be closer now.

Ain't any in the Root ether. mtmuley

 

[Buckskinbob]

Ain't any in the Root ether. mtmuley

Nothing but griz and woofs.

 

[millerkiller77]

There are quite a few ranches that lease horses during hunting seasons. It's the "off" season for most of these working horses and they are usually very well trained and easy to get along with in the back country.
I have been seasonally leasing horses for the last 14ish years and can count on one hand how many have been severe problems on the trail or bushwhacking .
They are delivered to your predetermined drop site with tack included in most cases. Plan on spending about $500-700 per horse per season. (September thru December) if you need them that long.
You're going to have wrecks. Period.
You're going to have an asshole horse that wont allow others to drink at crossings.
You're going to get one that refuses to be in the rear.
You'll get one that loves trotting back to camp as soon as you loosen the reigns.
You'll definitely run across an "online cowboy" twatknot or two that like to give unsolicited advice on hitching or meat transportation but it is what it is.



It's all part of the experience, sort it out on the first day, and assign the horse to rider appropriately.

Allocate an extra 30 minutes to an hour every morning and evening to take care of the horses , it's not like parking a SxS and calling it a night.
Pm me if you'd like contact info for leasing references

 

[Flatbrimmer]

South of butte, thanks. im excited I've been in missoula my whole life, but I can't take it any more, to much dog s#^$ and not enough elk!

I love the area around Butte. My wife wont let us move there but we sure spend a lot of time up there some years. We do a lot of gold mining and diggin for sapphires up there! I’ll PM ya after work, I’d like to chat more!

 

[OntarioHunter]

Quite a few replies and no time to read them all right now so hope this is not redundant.

1. Be very wary using hobbles! Some stock get them figured out and can move so fast it's hard to run them down. I cut my hobbles in half. Then attached about fifteen feet of 1" link chain to one hobble with a quick link. Run a large quick link through opposite end with a heavy ring. Attach about a dozen more feet of half inch poly braided rope to the ring. I braid a loop in one end of rope and backbraid the other end. Use the loop end to attach to ring. Now for the last piece of equipment: pull open the loop on a very heavy lag bolt screw eye, drop in another heavy ring, and close the screw eye loop on it (compress with a vice). Now you're set for picketing the loose horse. Find a good stout log just heavy enough for the horse to drag around. Screw the screw eye into it a foot or so from one end. Wrap the loose end of the rope around the log through the ring and tie it off with a BOWLINE KNOT. Don't know how to tie one? LEARN! It is a mainstay for handling livestock. Then attach the leather hobble end to a FRONT leg (only attach hobble to hind leg if you have a good medical plan!). The 1" chain lays flat on the ground and minimizes horse getting tangled up. Attach cowbell to halter with carbiner, turn that horse loose while the other(s) is tied securely (lead rope bowlined over the ears, through the halter under the chin, and bowlined to a stout tree. Then go to bed. DO NOT picket to live subalpine fir or aspen. Bark is too soft and you'll ring the tree and kill it. Doug fir and Engleman spruce are preferred but be careful. Wrap the rope around the trunk several times before tying off. So rope can't spin around the tree if horse decides to walk around it. I'm wary of high lines being stout enough. The horses know EXACTLY where the trailer is and if they break loose they'll run all the way back there. Ask me how I know! At night when the cowbell goes silent, it's time to get up and change the horses.

My advice is quite dated. I haven't had livestock since about 1992. Haven't packed into Great Bear since 1987. You need to check with USFS for current regulations re grazing, leave no trace, and weed free feed. Your horse guy should be up to speed.

2. Because I only had two horses, my elk camp usually required two trips. In a pinch I could get everything 23 miles back out in one trip if I walked ... and I did a couple of times. That is a long day.

3. If you're having habitual horsewrecks, it sounds like a problem that can be best resolved at the auction barn. Been there. I had a horse that kept me on the edge of my seat every moment I was in the saddle. SOB was also a pain in the ass to catch and trailer. When he reared back for no reason and tore down the corral fence at Granite Cabin, that was it. I did leave the shoes on him so he'd have some hope of dodging the glue factory at auction. The guy who bought that gelding asked me if I had packed with him. My advice was put that nag in the middle of the string and hope for the best. When purchasing livestock, avoid anything Arab. Even if you can find one that's not retarded or bipolar or both, their tiny hooves and skinny long pasterns don't do well in rugged country.

4. And for gawd's sake DO NOT picket horses in campsite. Boy, that chaps my ass. The flies will drive other campers nuts for the rest of the summer. And PLEASE build campfires well away from the trail. Livestock do NOT like fire rings! Instant rodeo.

 

[Cornbread]

Some great suggestions here. To me, it ain't worth it to own. Get a SxS. I had a buddy last Fall that was doing an outfitter horseback hunt 2hrs west of West Yellowstone. My buddy had his bear spray clipped to his jacket, it didn't have a safety clip and he went under a tree limb which caught the can and shot off the bear spray. Hit both the horse and my buddy in the face, and the guide even got some. The horse, a 16-hand mare, goes $*)Q!#@$ crazy, dumps him and runs off. About 10 days to 2 weeks after my buddy gets back hime he's up in a deer stand hunting and gets extremely dizzy. Eventually gets taken to a hospital where the do a CAT Scan and find out my buddy has an aneurism. 3-4 days in a major hospital and a stent in his brain. Major operation

2nd story. I get home from last year's elk trip in Montana and decide to buy a horse. I had about a years worth of lessons under my belt. Get him home, after buying him from a reliable guy, and with my trainer for help, and the 2nd time out he rears up, I lose my balance and fall back. I land on my back. I broke my L2 vertebrae in 4 pieces and and crack my tailbone. Fortunately, I had one of the country's top Neurosurgeons. 10 days in Advent Daytona, numerous rehab, and you should see the hardware he put in my back. 4 screws that are like huge deck screws and 2 rods. I see the doc tomorrow for a regular post -op checkup. I will never ride any horse ever again. At 69, I can't afford another fall like that. Horses are highly unpredictable, big animals. I still have Butter Bean. He's being re-trained from western to english. He's been having trouble, cause he has a lisp and can't pronounce fck, sht, motherfcker, Awhole, etc. LOLOL. I hope to have him sold in the next couple of months. They are a lot of work, to put it mildly. Ive learned a lot in the last 9 months.

Update: I have 6 more months of healing to go.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Some great suggestions here. To me, it ain't worth it to own. Get a SxS. I had a buddy last Fall that was doing an outfitter horseback hunt 2hrs west of West Yellowstone. My buddy had his bear spray clipped to his jacket, it didn't have a safety clip and he went under a tree limb which caught the can and shot off the bear spray. Hit both the horse and my buddy in the face, and the guide even got some. The horse, a 16-hand mare, goes $*)Q!#@$ crazy, dumps him and runs off. About 10 days to 2 weeks after my buddy gets back hime he's up in a deer stand hunting and gets extremely dizzy. Eventually gets taken to a hospital where the do a CAT Scan and find out my buddy has an aneurism. 3-4 days in a major hospital and a stent in his brain. Major operation

2nd story. I get home from last year's elk trip in Montana and decide to buy a horse. I had about a years worth of lessons under my belt. Get him home, after buying him from a reliable guy, and with my trainer for help, and the 2nd time out he rears up, I lose my balance and fall back. I land on my back. I broke my L2 vertebrae in 4 pieces and and crack my tailbone. Fortunately, I had one of the country's top Neurosurgeons. 10 days in Advent Daytona, numerous rehab, and you should see the hardware he put in my back. 4 screws that are like huge deck screws and 2 rods. I see the doc tomorrow for a regular post -op checkup. I will never ride any horse ever again. At 69, I can't afford another fall like that. Horses are highly unpredictable, big animals. I still have Butter Bean. He's being re-trained from western to english. He's been having trouble, cause he has a lisp and can't pronounce fck, sht, motherfcker, Awhole, etc. LOLOL. I hope to have him sold in the next couple of months. They are a lot of work, to put it mildly. Ive learned a lot in the last 9 months.

Yeah, and I know a couple of quadrapalegics who won't be riding SxS or quads again in their lifetimes. I think if you checked the per capita accident ratio and compared it to horses you might be surprised.

I had my "good horse" pile me up more than once. If she hadn't been such a hard worker, she would have went to the canner early on. Her conformation was horrible and no sensible person would have bought her at auction. But she was a dedicated worker, easy to catch, easy to trailer. Sometimes though, SHE thought she could dictate what the chore or routine was supposed to be. I usually came out on the ground level of those arguments. She couldn't buck me off so she'd just go over backwards on top of me. Man, that is the longest split second when you know 900 lbs is coming down on top and nothing you can do about it. Ugh! But I survived ... even one time going end over end down the mountain. We eventually got the pecking order straightened out. Cried like a baby the last time I put my arms around her neck. She was 24 years old and finally crippled up. No one cries when the quad or truck goes to the junkyard.

 

[Buckskinbob]

Some great suggestions here. To me, it ain't worth it to own. Get a SxS. I had a buddy last Fall that was doing an outfitter horseback hunt 2hrs west of West Yellowstone. My buddy had his bear spray clipped to his jacket, it didn't have a safety clip and he went under a tree limb which caught the can and shot off the bear spray. Hit both the horse and my buddy in the face, and the guide even got some. The horse, a 16-hand mare, goes $*)Q!#@$ crazy, dumps him and runs off. About 10 days to 2 weeks after my buddy gets back hime he's up in a deer stand hunting and gets extremely dizzy. Eventually gets taken to a hospital where the do a CAT Scan and find out my buddy has an aneurism. 3-4 days in a major hospital and a stent in his brain. Major operation

2nd story. I get home from last year's elk trip in Montana and decide to buy a horse. I had about a years worth of lessons under my belt. Get him home, after buying him from a reliable guy, and with my trainer for help, and the 2nd time out he rears up, I lose my balance and fall back. I land on my back. I broke my L2 vertebrae in 4 pieces and and crack my tailbone. Fortunately, I had one of the country's top Neurosurgeons. 10 days in Advent Daytona, numerous rehab, and you should see the hardware he put in my back. 4 screws that are like huge deck screws and 2 rods. I see the doc tomorrow for a regular post -op checkup. I will never ride any horse ever again. At 69, I can't afford another fall like that. Horses are highly unpredictable, big animals. I still have Butter Bean. He's being re-trained from western to english. He's been having trouble, cause he has a lisp and can't pronounce fck, sht, motherfcker, Awhole, etc. LOLOL. I hope to have him sold in the next couple of months. They are a lot of work, to put it mildly. Ive learned a lot in the last 9 months.

Dangit!

 

[Buckskinbob]

There are quite a few ranches that lease horses during hunting seasons. It's the "off" season for most of these working horses and they are usually very well trained and easy to get along with in the back country.
I have been seasonally leasing horses for the last 14ish years and can count on one hand how many have been severe problems on the trail or bushwhacking .
They are delivered to your predetermined drop site with tack included in most cases. Plan on spending about $500-700 per horse per season. (September thru December) if you need them that long.
You're going to have wrecks. Period.
You're going to have an asshole horse that wont allow others to drink at crossings.
You're going to get one that refuses to be in the rear.
You'll get one that loves trotting back to camp as soon as you loosen the reigns.
You'll definitely run across an "online cowboy" twatknot or two that like to give unsolicited advice on hitching or meat transportation but it is what it is.



It's all part of the experience, sort it out on the first day, and assign the horse to rider appropriately.

Allocate an extra 30 minutes to an hour every morning and evening to take care of the horses , it's not like parking a SxS and calling it a night.
Pm me if you'd like contact info for leasing referencesView attachment 291187View attachment 291188View attachment 291189

Man you guys get set up back there.

 

[Buckskinbob]

Quite a few replies and no time to read them all right now so hope this is not redundant.

1. Be very wary using hobbles! Some stock get them figured out and can move so fast it's hard to run them down. I cut my hobbles in half. Then attached about fifteen feet of 1" link chain to one hobble with a quick link. Run a large quick link through opposite end with a heavy ring. Attach about a dozen more feet of half inch poly braided rope to the ring. I braid a loop in one end of rope and backbraid the other end. Use the loop end to attach to ring. Now for the last piece of equipment: pull open the loop on a very heavy lag bolt screw eye, drop in another heavy ring, and close the screw eye loop on it (compress with a vice). Now you're set for picketing the loose horse. Find a good stout log just heavy enough for the horse to drag around. Screw the screw eye into it a foot or so from one end. Wrap the loose end of the rope around the log through the ring and tie it off with a BOWLINE KNOT. Don't know how to tie one? LEARN! It is a mainstay for handling livestock. Then attach the leather hobble end to a FRONT leg (only attach hobble to hind leg if you have a good medical plan!). The 1" chain lays flat on the ground and minimizes horse getting tangled up. Attach cowbell to halter with carbiner, turn that horse loose while the other(s) is tied securely (lead rope bowlined over the ears, through the halter under the chin, and bowlined to a stout tree. Then go to bed. DO NOT picket to live subalpine fir or aspen. Bark is too soft and you'll ring the tree and kill it. Doug fir and Engleman spruce are preferred but be careful. Wrap the rope around the trunk several times before tying off. So rope can't spin around the tree if horse decides to walk around it. I'm wary of high lines being stout enough. The horses know EXACTLY where the trailer is and if they break loose they'll run all the way back there. Ask me how I know! At night when the cowbell goes silent, it's time to get up and change the horses.

My advice is quite dated. I haven't had livestock since about 1992. Haven't packed into Great Bear since 1987. You need to check with USFS for current regulations re grazing, leave no trace, and weed free feed. Your horse guy should be up to speed.

2. Because I only had two horses, my elk camp usually required two trips. In a pinch I could get everything 23 miles back out in one trip if I walked ... and I did a couple of times. That is a long day.

3. If you're having habitual horsewrecks, it sounds like a problem that can be best resolved at the auction barn. Been there. I had a horse that kept me on the edge of my seat every moment I was in the saddle. SOB was also a pain in the ass to catch and trailer. When he reared back for no reason and tore down the corral fence at Granite Cabin, that was it. I did leave the shoes on him so he'd have some hope of dodging the glue factory at auction. The guy who bought that gelding asked me if I had packed with him. My advice was put that nag in the middle of the string and hope for the best. When purchasing livestock, avoid anything Arab. Even if you can find one that's not retarded or bipolar or both, their tiny hooves and skinny long pasterns don't do well in rugged country.

4. And for gawd's sake DO NOT picket horses in campsite. Boy, that chaps my ass. The flies will drive other campers nuts for the rest of the summer. And PLEASE build campfires well away from the trail. Livestock do NOT like fire rings! Instant rodeo.

My girlfriend has a love for mustangs, I think that might be the main problem causing our wrecks, she finally picked up a couple nice quarter horses last week.

Our last trip I road one of her more green mustangs and all it would take is a branch rubbing her leg and I would my on my head in the next few seconds. I ended up walking all of ten miles in my riding boots that day

 

[OntarioHunter]

My girlfriend has a love for mustangs, I think that might be the main problem causing our wrecks, she finally picked up a couple nice quarter horses last week.

Our last trip I road one of her more green mustangs and all it would take is a branch rubbing her leg and I would my on my head in the next few seconds. I ended up walking all of ten miles in my riding boots that day

I always wore my Whites logging boots for riding. Tossed the rawhide bound stirrups for metal and oak "overshoe" stirrups so no worries about getting hung up. That way I could get off and hike when I got to hunting area. No need to pack a second pair of boots. "Packer" style boots are a joke for anything but walking around camp or barnyard. Not enough tread on the soles for climbing. Those things are just a silly status symbol. Dysfunctional and extremely expensive. Don't bite that bait!

 

[millerkiller77]

I always wore my Whites logging boots for riding. Tossed the rawhide bound stirrups for metal and oak "overshoe" stirrups so no worries about getting hung up. That way I could get off and hike when I got to hunting area. No need to pack a second pair of boots. "Packer" style boots are a joke for anything but walking around camp or barnyard. Not enough tread on the soles for climbing. Those things are just a silly status symbol. Dysfunctional and extremely expensive. Don't bite that bait!

I'm going to agree with you on the "overshoe" stirrups , except the logging boot part. That's a good way to get Texas justice road rash
. They are oversized stirrups to accommodate wider toe boxes and thicker soles on most hunting boots.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Bob, try out a pack trip in the summer before you try to pull off a Horseback hunt. That will give you a chance to concentrate on what the horses, and your camp needs with long, warm days., ample grazing and a minimum of potential wrecks. If you love the summer pack trip, THEN you can add Hunting, cold weather icy trails, feed runs out to the trailhead, cutting, hauling, drying firewood, meat retrievals and sketchy places to ride/lead a packhorse.

I'm a lifelong horse owner and rider, and been taking horses into the mountains after deer and elk since 2005. I've worked as a guide and packer in 3 states and hunted in 9 Western States. If you search my posts, you will see plenty of horse packing pictures...


As for resources, There is a young guy in Montana who has some good videos about his horseback and hunting experiences, MATHER outdoors


This should be your Bible

https://www.amazon.com/Packin-Mules-Horses-Smoke-Elser/dp/0878421270

This was one of my favorite hunts in a new spot

Great stuff! Great advice.