Home purchase

[El Jason]

Yeah, really. CO, where I have been for 16 years now is a prime example. Native Coloradans aren't pushing the crazy increase. It is east and west coast folks coming from even crazier cost areas, flush with cash, paying OVER asking price for anything decent and bringing the horrible tax/government/social policies that drove where they came from into the toilet and made them want to leave. Look at the Denver/Aurora metroplex vs what it was 15 years ago. There is absolutely NOTHING better than it was and THAT population base rules the state.

So that makes them human refuse?

 

[SAJ-99]

Yeah, really. CO, where I have been for 16 years now is a prime example. Native Coloradans aren't pushing the crazy increase. It is east and west coast folks coming from even crazier cost areas, flush with cash, paying OVER asking price for anything decent and bringing the horrible tax/government/social policies that drove where they came from into the toilet and made them want to leave. Look at the Denver/Aurora metroplex vs what it was 15 years ago. There is absolutely NOTHING better than it was and THAT population base rules the state.

They measure that stuff, but carry on.

 

[rjthehunter]

Well, I bought a house in 2020 at 23 years old by myself.

There's plenty of houses nicer than mine, and plenty that are in a lot tougher shape than what I have. I have 3 acres, a 40x60 shop, less than 10 mins to the closest lake, and 100+ more within a 30 min drive of my house. It is up almost 50% since I bought it.

My next move is to buy 20-40 acres, then build a dream home. Move there and rent out my current space. Maybe. We'll see what the housing market does.

It sounds like fun to move out West, but really, I make more $ here, housing is affordable compared to out west, family is here, I can still elk hunt every year and take several trips out there as I desire. I couldn't afford to travel much if my cost of living was simply because where I live.

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah, really. CO, where I have been for 16 years now is a prime example. Native Coloradans aren't pushing the crazy increase. It is east and west coast folks coming from even crazier cost areas, flush with cash, paying OVER asking price for anything decent and bringing the horrible tax/government/social policies that drove where they came from into the toilet and made them want to leave. Look at the Denver/Aurora metroplex vs what it was 15 years ago. There is absolutely NOTHING better than it was and THAT population base rules the state.

You're just wrong.

The problem isn't people moving to desirable places to live, the problem is that wages haven't kept up with the price of cars, insurance, housing, etc.

I use this example all the time. My parents bought their first house in 1970 in Missoula, $9,900 in the University Area. Dad was bringing in about 12K a year gross. So, theoretically he could have purchased a house on about what he received in net pay. They bought their second house in 1978, the house they still live in. Pretty desirable part of Missoula for 32K. The house was a considerable upgrade from their first house, but Dad was making about 25K a year by then, so maybe 1.5-2 years gross pay to buy that house.

Flash forward to today, their house is now worth 600K+. How many jobs do you think in Missoula Montana pay 300K+ a year to make an equal comparison? I don't know for sure, but I bet not many, and sure as shit isn't any working in a lumber mill like my Dad did his whole life that are making that.

The trouble isn't people moving, the trouble is wages not keeping pace with prices of anything. As I already said, largely due to crap economic policy started in the 1980's and continuing today that grossly favor the top 2%. And that's just a fact.

Housing at the current levels wouldn't be a problem if middle class workers were knocking down 250K a year.

So, when I hear crap like you're posting about "sacrificing" and "working harder" all that tells me is how far out of touch you are with reality as well as those working their asses off to provide just the basics for themselves and their families. You know, food on the table, insurance, a jalopy to drive to work, rent, clothing, etc. Oh, and to ice the cake, most likely the place they work doesn't have a pension but a 401K with a match, which is great if you make enough to take advantage of it.

The playing field is nowhere close to what it was 10-20-30 years ago, you're still living in the past thinking nothing has changed. The coffee is burnt, time to wake up and smell it.

 

[PoleX]

To add to Buzz's post. I didn't verify the source but it aligns with my observations as well:

 

[SAJ-99]

To add more context. A bit dated but you will get the idea.
20% of americans don't care much about price.
the next 20% are working hard and are cost conscious and trying to make it into retirement with a decent next egg.
The other 60% are either treading water or drowning.

Almost all of our economic numbers on spending are driven by the top 20%. Given they are almost "recession proof", we get a more stable economy if we just look at the numbers.

 

[Treeshark]

Those charts are interesting as well as sobering.

They also act a bit like a Rorschach test I suppose in terms of what they tell us.

 

[Steiny77]

You're just wrong.

The problem isn't people moving to desirable places to live, the problem is that wages haven't kept up with the price of cars, insurance, housing, etc.

I use this example all the time. My parents bought their first house in 1970 in Missoula, $9,900 in the University Area. Dad was bringing in about 12K a year gross. So, theoretically he could have purchased a house on about what he received in net pay. They bought their second house in 1978, the house they still live in. Pretty desirable part of Missoula for 32K. The house was a considerable upgrade from their first house, but Dad was making about 25K a year by then, so maybe 1.5-2 years gross pay to buy that house.

Flash forward to today, their house is now worth 600K+. How many jobs do you think in Missoula Montana pay 300K+ a year to make an equal comparison? I don't know for sure, but I bet not many, and sure as shit isn't any working in a lumber mill like my Dad did his whole life that are making that.

The trouble isn't people moving, the trouble is wages not keeping pace with prices of anything. As I already said, largely due to crap economic policy started in the 1980's and continuing today that grossly favor the top 2%. And that's just a fact.

Housing at the current levels wouldn't be a problem if middle class workers were knocking down 250K a year.

So, when I hear crap like you're posting about "sacrificing" and "working harder" all that tells me is how far out of touch you are with reality as well as those working their asses off to provide just the basics for themselves and their families. You know, food on the table, insurance, a jalopy to drive to work, rent, clothing, etc. Oh, and to ice the cake, most likely the place they work doesn't have a pension but a 401K with a match, which is great if you make enough to take advantage of it.

The playing field is nowhere close to what it was 10-20-30 years ago, you're still living in the past thinking nothing has changed. The coffee is burnt, time to wake up and smell it.

You've not seen this kind of housing inflation everywhere. There are still many areas of the country where you can by a starter / fixer upper home for somewhere pretty close to a years wages.
For income levels to keep up compared to housing prices in some of the HCOL areas, you'd have to be paying normal blue collar skilled workers $150 per hour. Raise wages up to those levels and see what that does to the economy overnight.

The cost of the housing is so high because of the desirable dirt they are sitting on and the demand to live in those locales. What were once many affordable western towns are now high demand places where lots of people want to live.

 

[Nick87]

Houses don't SEEM too unreasonable around here, lots of starters under $100K, but I have no idea about local wages. I know of some $25hr but there is a commute, like I did for about 30 years. Daughter and boyfriend recently bought a 3 bed 2 bath 1500 sq ft place with a good sized lot for $119K. Not a bad place, pretty good for a young family. They both make $25hr at the same place. I bought my place from my grandfather many moons ago for $38K and we made improvements and put up a steel building designed for a dog boarding business/garage. Zillow put me somewhere around $226K currently. It will go to my youngest daughter and they can decide to move here and sell or rent their place or the other way around. Figured I'd help them out in the future with their family. If I sold I could probably find a smaller place and have some extra cash but I don't need to do that. I'm fine where I'm at.

Tell em about the taxes Dave...

 

[Letthemgrow]

To add more context. A bit dated but you will get the idea.
20% of americans don't care much about price.
the next 20% are working hard and are cost conscious and trying to make it into retirement with a decent next egg.
The other 60% are either treading water or drowning.

Almost all of our economic numbers on spending are driven by the top 20%. Given they are almost "recession proof", we get a more stable economy if we just look at the numbers.

View attachment 387415

Is that individual income or household income?

 

[SAJ-99]

Is that individual income or household income?

Household

 

[Dave N]

Tell em about the taxes Dave...

Do I have to?

On the plus side, I turn 65 next year and can apply for a freeze on my taxable valuation as well as a $5K senior citizen exemption.

 

[mevertsen]

You've not seen this kind of housing inflation everywhere. There are still many areas of the country where you can by a starter / fixer upper home for somewhere pretty close to a years wages.
For income levels to keep up compared to housing prices in some of the HCOL areas, you'd have to be paying normal blue collar skilled workers $150 per hour. Raise wages up to those levels and see what that does to the economy overnight.

The cost of the housing is so high because of the desirable dirt they are sitting on and the demand to live in those locales. What were once many affordable western towns are now high demand places where lots of people want to live.

To add to your last sentence....

"For 3 months out of the year, at most. And rent to high paying AIRBNBer's the rest of the time. "

 

[Ballistic]

Skilled tradesmen are charging good money right now, and staying busy. It's all relative, I supposed. It has been that way, as long as I have been in the trades. The dollar's buying power has definitely shrunk over the years.

We are nearly 2x what any of our attorneys are in billable rate basis.

 

[Ballistic]

we built our house and moved in in 2019. Our interest is locked in at 2.00% our initial payment was around $1250/month. Now it’s nearly $2000 because of increases in taxes and insurance.

It’s weekly that we get letters from our bank saying we are reapproved for a Heloc loan up to X amount, but we need to refinance at the low rate of 6%. Yea, no thanks.

This doesn't make any sense. A HELOC and refinancing are 2 different things.

 

[SFC B]

You realize that's exactly what you're telling all the intermountain west people to do to the midwest, right? Blood and soil.

Big difference between the 2 populations groups and their approach to life...BIG

 

[Forkyfinder]

Betting midwest taxes and insurance differences is 400 a month different.

My insurance and taxes are around 2500 ea annual. 3500 -5000 a year more in taxes/insurance combined would be a hit to your buying power.

What are taxes in the midwest?

 

[WildWill]

Betting midwest taxes and insurance differences is 400 a month different.

My insurance and taxes are around 2500 ea annual. 3500 -5000 a year more in taxes/insurance combined would be a hit to your buying power.

What are taxes in the midwest?

Tax for the house was $2200 last year. Insurance $3400 although that higher rate might be because Oklahoma is tornado alley with pretty regular hail.

 

[Gulf of America]

Big difference between the 2 populations groups and their approach to life...BIG

Quite a leap to assume the geographic location someone is moving from is all you need to know to determine their quality as a person. I'm out.

 

[Ballistic]

Betting midwest taxes and insurance differences is 400 a month different.

My insurance and taxes are around 2500 ea annual. 3500 -5000 a year more in taxes/insurance combined would be a hit to your buying power.

What are taxes in the midwest?

Illinois was over $7000/yr. on an average home in the south suburbs of Chicago 20years ago. My taxes in Indiana are about $3200/yr on a home I paid $138k for in 2013 another $1800/yr. in insurance.