HB 243 - Mandatory In-Person Field Day for Hunters Ed

[Addicting]

A well designed field day can easily work in concert with online hunter Ed. Here the students have to take a written exam and then do a walk through course with the inert Mossbergs (which are fine for this purpose and alleviate concerns of a stupid instructor having live ammo for live firearms) during which they have to demonstrate safe gun handling.

Agreed if they are able to actually schedule a field day. Availability of seats will need to be directly tied to a bill thru dedicated funding. I think that is where most of the all volunteer programs fail.

 

[Irrelevant]

A well designed field day can easily work in concert with online hunter Ed. Here the students have to take a written exam and then do a walk through course with the inert Mossbergs (which are fine for this purpose and alleviate concerns of a stupid instructor having live ammo for live firearms) during which they have to demonstrate safe gun handling.

Huh, most of my Hunter ed was with live ammo in real guns. We had to pass proficiency testing, small rifle (.22), large rifle (>.243), and shotgun (20 ga) as part of the final exam. Almost everyone brought their own weapons to class.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

I'm a relatively new hunter education instructor. The biggest point of the class is safety. Yes, there are lessons on how to hunt and all that other stuff but the number one priority is safety. Obviously hunting is a lifetime of learning, we can't teach all of that in the class. What we can do in those hours of in person class is drill kids and adults on how to act around a firearm safely. I've been lucky to teach with a passionate instructor and learn from them but I think the department needs to step up and do better with instructor retention and getting new instructors what they need to stick with it and not just quit.
If I hadn't had such a great mentor, I probably would have quit because I had zero clue what I was doing. I didn't know how to make up a daily class or make it more engaging for kids. There needs to be some sort of baseline for the class and not just the bare minimum. Every instructor has their way of teaching a class but I do wish there was some consistency in some things.
I do know some instructors quit because they didn't feel it was necessary to teach if students could just take the online course without a field day to get around the in person class. Maybe this bill will encourage those instructors to come back.

 

[Lawnboy]

I don't mean to sound like a total wanker but these are my thoughts. Going through Hunters Ed with my kids was rough. Like mentioned in other posts finding seats was rough and so we had to sign up for classes in Belgrade and Manhattan instead of my hometown Bozeman. Normally it wouldn't be the end of the world but this is where my complaint comes in. The classes were painfully long full of nothing but the differing opinions of each instructor. It was like a brag session with some varying scenarios. I totally appreciate those who dedicate time to do this and I don't blame them necessarily because I feel they are just trying to fill time for those days as well. My solution is to lesson the days required and make them packed with a set curriculum. I can't for the life of me understand why we need x # of days of rambling. I know this isn't what the OP was posting about but this has been my beef from my first through 4 kids. Maybe I'm alone on noticing this?

 

[44hunter45]

Agreed if they are able to actually schedule a field day. Availability of seats will need to be directly tied to a bill thru dedicated funding. I think that is where most of the all volunteer programs fail.

This is a real issue. I took my granddaughter though Idaho's online class with a required field day. Field days are a bugger to schedule. There are not a lot and they fill up fast.
If you wait too long, your new hunter could be sitting out a year. (Although there is a mentored hunter path before they get their card. )If you are bringing on a new hunter, plan ahead and book early. In Idaho the classes are listed on the IDFG web site.

Let's hope Montana makes it as easy to find the field day calendar.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Maybe I'm alone on noticing this?

No, you’re not.

 

[Addicting]

This is a real issue. I took my granddaughter though Idaho's online class with a required field day. Field days are a bugger to schedule. There are not a lot and they fill up fast.
If you wait too long, your new hunter could be sitting out a year. (Although there is a mentored hunter path before they get their card. )If you are bringing on a new hunter, plan ahead and book early. In Idaho the classes are listed on the IDFG web site.

Let's hope Montana makes it as easy to find the field day calendar.

ID went away from the field day because of Covid and hasn’t reinstated it. Module 10 is a virtual field day with really good videos of safety situations.

Both my kids took it and I was really impressed with the quality and how well they retained the info they had learned.

We reviewed the recent hunter shooting case in CO. Both of them recalled those videos and commented on how it addresses knowing your target and what’s beyond. One kid had taken over a year ago and recalled it pretty accurately.

 

[pyrotechnic]

ID went away from the field day because of Covid and hasn’t reinstated it. Module 10 is a virtual field day with really good videos of safety situations.

Both my kids took it and I was really impressed with the quality and how well they retained the info they had learned.

We reviewed the recent hunter shooting case in CO. Both of them recalled those videos and commented on how it addresses knowing your target and what’s beyond. One kid had taken over a year ago and recalled it pretty accurately.

It's almost like kids that have parents/mentors that are involved and engaged their education learn and retain more things, regardless of where they go to school. Weird how that happens.

Sorry for the snark @Ben Lamb, I really do appreciate the work you put in for us. However, the cynical side of me looked at this and thought "Well, we couldn't actually agree to make the sacrifices necessary to manage the resource properly, but we could all agree to make it harder to get into the game if you're not already playing"

 

[Nameless Range]

I don't mean to sound like a total wanker but these are my thoughts. Going through Hunters Ed with my kids was rough. Like mentioned in other posts finding seats was rough and so we had to sign up for classes in Belgrade and Manhattan instead of my hometown Bozeman. Normally it wouldn't be the end of the world but this is where my complaint comes in. The classes were painfully long full of nothing but the differing opinions of each instructor. It was like a brag session with some varying scenarios. I totally appreciate those who dedicate time to do this and I don't blame them necessarily because I feel they are just trying to fill time for those days as well. My solution is to lesson the days required and make them packed with a set curriculum. I can't for the life of me understand why we need x # of days of rambling. I know this isn't what the OP was posting about but this has been my beef from my first through 4 kids. Maybe I'm alone on noticing this?

There just seems to be a lot of variability in what hunter's ed will be like for a Montanan.

My daughter took it two years ago at Montana Wild in Helena. I believe it was two Saturdays. I only sat in for one of them, but it was to the point and without bluster. 28 years ago I took Hunters Ed at Clancy Elementary. Instructors were Mr. Hammer and Mr. Styba, and Vince Yannonne came to one of our classes to talk wildlife. It was a great experience. I recall drilling fence crossings with rifles in the fields behind Clancy quite a bit, and my memory also holds that the instructors taught the class so you'd pass the test and not much else.

@MTelkHuntress 's comment makes me think that one's hunters education experience is highly contingent on the instructor you get. It's tough to bellyache or be picky about volunteers, but perhaps there is a way to incentivize more folks to become instructors as well as better line instructors out with a clear plan to follow. We should push our FWP to identify the issues and work to resolve them.

'A mystery of the universe is how it has managed to survive with so much volunteer help.' -Norman Maclean

 

[Ben Lamb]

It's almost like kids that have parents/mentors that are involved and engaged their education learn and retain more things, regardless of where they go to school. Weird how that happens.

Sorry for the snark @Ben Lamb, I really do appreciate the work you put in for us. However, the cynical side of me looked at this and thought "Well, we couldn't actually agree to make the sacrifices necessary to manage the resource properly, but we could all agree to make it harder to get into the game if you're not already playing"

It's always interesting to see the personal perspectives around issues like this. No need for an apology. Snark is mother's milk.

The bill has a delayed effective date to help ensure that this all gets covered. One aspect that hasn't been mentioned is that the agency will convene a working group on Hunter's Ed, which hopefully addresses some of these issues.

Personally, I don't think it's much difficulty to get into a class, even if you have to try for a bit. My experience is similar to others in terms of finding an open class, but my reason for it was I was lazy and waited until the last minute to try and find a field day.

Folks really focus on the youth here, and that's the primary participant, but with the increase in adult on-set hunters who have had zero experience with the culture, gun safety, etc, it's important to ensure that their skillset meets a minimum requirement. We require a lot more education and in-person training for driver's ed, requiring a field day for hunting isn't that much of a barrier to entry, especially when the cost is free, and the steps to ensure better alignment with classes and availability are being met.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I equate on-line Hunters Ed with Work From Home rules. Does the work get done? Technically, yes. Is it better than in person? No.

 

[Addicting]

I equate on-line Hunters Ed with Work From Home rules. Does the work get done? Technically, yes. Is it better than in person? No.

Completely subjective statement. Same as good instructor and the guy who shows up beer in hand for in person classes.

I am a horrible stay at home worker. My wife is excellent and gets way more done than at the office. She has received numerous awards since she became a remote worker.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Completely subjective statement.

For sure.

I am a horrible stay at home worker. My wife is excellent and gets way more done than at the office. She has received numerous awards since she became a remote worker.

In the absence of facts, my assumption is your wife is the minority. Same assumption would hold for on-line hunters Ed. Can it be more effective than in-person? Yes. Is it for the majority of people? No.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I equate on-line Hunters Ed with Work From Home rules. Does the work get done? Technically, yes. Is it better than in person? No.

I’ve been involved in a lot of hunter Ed classes over several decades, and I absolutely cannot agree with this. It depends…

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I’ve been involved in a lot of hunter Ed classes over several decades, and I absolutely cannot agree with this. It depends…

All you had to do was not Like it. Bully!

Is this a better analogy? Saying On-line hunters Ed is as good as in-person is like saying Online Scouting of a new unit is as good as actual boots on the ground scouting.

I suspect you are correct that it does depend on many factors. I have only attended 4 different HE classes; mine (85), my wife (2002), and both of my boys (2017&18). All were in person. All had, what I felt was great, hands on instruction. It was great to see another person re-enforce the same safe firearms handling practices I had been teaching them. It was good to see someone else be stern with them when they needed it. Not sure how you would get that from Online only. I would need to be convinced.

 

[sclancy27]

Man, you could teach an entire class soley based of the shitty decisions readily available through YouTube videos of ShitFluencers

 

[Addicting]

All you had to do was not Like it. Bully!

Is this a better analogy? Saying On-line hunters Ed is as good as in-person is like saying Online Scouting of a new unit is as good as actual boots on the ground scouting.

I suspect you are correct that it does depend on many factors. I have only attended 4 different HE classes; mine (85), my wife (2002), and both of my boys (2017&18). All were in person. All had, what I felt was great, hands on instruction. It was great to see another person re-enforce the same safe firearms handling practices I had been teaching them. It was good to see someone else be stern with them when they needed it. Not sure how you would get that from Online only. I would need to be convinced.

How can you make such strong statements in favor of one if you have never done the other or seen the results.

I’ve only ever lived in Rawlins WY and it’s by far way better than…. Lol

 

[Nameless Range]

I think a big difference between online classes and in person classes, at least in the academic world, is ya don't know who's taking them or who's doing the work.


My wife could've passed my Medical Terminology class for me back when I was trying to get some stupid general credits out of the way for my degree....Hypothetically.

Hunting is dangerous and sacred and full of consequences, and making folks show up in person doesn't seem like an inappropriate ask relative to the privilege.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

How can you make such strong statements in favor of one if you have never done the other or seen the results.

I’ve only ever lived in Rawlins WY and it’s by far way better than…. Lol

Its called an opinion. Opinions are formed by facts, observations, assumptions, history, experience, BS, etc. Show me some evidence that its just as good and maybe I will change my opinion.

That's really what this entire Forum is about. Nothing more than opinions.

I've never lived in Michigan, but in my opinion living in Wyo is better. Change my mind!

 

[Straight Arrow]

I do support at least one in-person class as well as an in-person field day. However, after all these pages of opinions about the bill I am questioning the legislative reason for passing it as The LAW. You would think a legislature with so much ideological emphasis on less regulation and more restraint in expansion of laws would leave the authority and responsibility of planning, equipping, manning, and conducting hunter education to the appropriate state agency, FWP, without passing laws to micro-manage the curriculum.
Must everything be legislated by a strict and firm law?! 'Just sayin'.