HB 243 - Mandatory In-Person Field Day for Hunters Ed

[Ben Lamb]

Representative Marilyn Marler's (D-Missoula) HB 243 (I love this bill number, btw) is up on the House floor this coming Tuesday (at the earliest). The bill is cosponsored by Representative Neil Durham (R-Libby).

The bill came out of committee strong, on a 17-2 vote and added a delayed effective date so FWP can spool the program back up again. This is a great bill and part of the Elk Coalition & MOGA's legislative package.

We need folks to contact their House member and ask that they support HB 243. You can find their contact informatin here: https://leg.mt.gov/legislator-information/

You can also call the Legislature hotline starting on Monday morning: 406-444-4800 and leave a message for your specific legislator.

Be polite and simply ask that your legislator support HB 243 on second reading. In person field days are a tradition and important part of becoming an ethical and sound hunter. Montana went away from those during COVID, and the ease of securing new hunters via online courses made returning to those field days less attractive for the agency, especially since a number of Hunter Ed instructors have quit over the last few years.

If you need help finding your legislator, hit me up via PM and I'll walk you through the process. It's so easy, even I can do it!

 

[Nick87]

All states should have this..actually the entire class should be in person imo.

 

[Ben Lamb]

All states should have this..actually the entire class should be in person imo.

There should be a study bill coming forward towards the end of the session that would look at hunter education in MT including ways to integrate the Master Hunter program into the FWP sphere so that the barrier to entry is lower. What we've heard over the last year is a lot of concern about hunter behavior from hunters, landowners and outfitters. If we're all seeing a problem, then we need to start thinking through the solution in a well researched & comprehensive fashion.

 

[Nicoli7153]

I agree! After being involved with many classes I believe there is nothing that takes the place of an instructor/student interaction. It makes it much easier to weed out those that are not ready yet and also gives the students the chance to have a real live person answer questions they may have and explain things to them

 

[Gellar]

I teach an in person class, 2 full classes in schools as part of the curriculum, and 2 field days every year for people who complete a portion online. I’m behind this 110%!

 

[YukonGold]

Hugely support this.

Also, unrelated, but does anyone know who came up with the law that only people born after 1985 have to take hunter's ed? I'd love to see that go away and make it mandatory for all new hunters. I know plenty of older millennials and gen-xers who have recently gotten into hunting and really, really don't know what they're doing.

 

[Gellar]

Hugely support this.

Also, unrelated, but does anyone know who came up with the law that only people born after 1985 have to take hunter's ed? I'd love to see that go away and make it mandatory for all new hunters. I know plenty of older millennials and gen-xers who have recently gotten into hunting and really, really don't know what they're doing.

That’s different in every state. In Iowa it’s 1972. When I started teaching classes it was 1967. They somehow lost 5 years worth of data so they grandfathered them in. I get a few people every year who are going to a state that requires hunters Ed for all, like Colorado, so they take my class even though they don’t need it here.

 

[Addicting]

I’m not but as a NR it really doesn’t matter.

I chose to have my kids take the ID online class with me. We finished it at our own pace and both kids came away with a good understanding to later refine it in the field with me.

Our local sportsmen’s club does offer in person but it is lead by a nincompoop. One who showed up to pitch his class at a club meeting with beer in hand. But since there is a shortage of instructors here and we have not been able to get a class for the kids he got the job. I doubt he could lead anyone out of a porta John let alone teach safety.

Lots of kids and not enough instructors has led to a severely compromised program. I saw this same thing in AZ in trying to schedule a field day. Too many kids for available field day slots.


I haven’t read the bill or how it’s going to be funded but that will be key to have a successful “Mandatory” program.

 

[Hunting Wife]

I think it’s a great idea on theory. But I really worry about the implementation. Trappers Ed has the same requirement. I’ve been asking about taking a class for four years now, ever since I started hearing rumblings about the class requirement, and because I’d like to actually learn some things. In those four years, I’ve only ever heard of 4 classes being held- all at the complete other end of the state from me.

Talking to someone who has been trying to get certified as an instructor, and he is very frustrated with how the program is being run. He’s been trying to work through the certification process for over a year.

If taking a required class becomes a bottleneck, at some point it’s a barrier to entry.

 

[Nicoli7153]

I’m not but as a NR it really doesn’t matter.

I chose to have my kids take the ID online class with me. We finished it at our own pace and both kids came away with a good understanding to later refine it in the field with me.

Our local sportsmen’s club does offer in person but it is lead by a nincompoop. One who showed up to pitch his class at a club meeting with beer in hand. But since there is a shortage of instructors here and we have not been able to get a class for the kids he got the job. I doubt he could lead anyone out of a porta John let alone teach safety.

Lots of kids and not enough instructors has led to a severely compromised program. I saw this same thing in AZ in trying to schedule a field day. Too many kids for available field day slots.


I haven’t read the bill or how it’s going to be funded but that will be key to have a successful “Mandatory” program.

You should make your thoughts and observations known to the MDNR Law Enforcement Division. They are responsible for administering the program. Plainwell Lt. is the person to contact if you are still in SW Michigan

 

[Addicting]

You should make your thoughts and observations known to the MDNR Law Enforcement Division. They are responsible for administering the program. Plainwell Lt. is the person to contact

That is an exercise in futility. As much as I don’t care for him, He is a certified instructor and the club chose him. We are not forced to use it as hunter safety can be taken anywhere. It is just a requirement here for a child to have it. As long as ID offers it without a in person field day I will continue to funnel competent people there.

I have taken hunters Ed 4 times now and quite like their program.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I think it’s a great idea on theory. But I really worry about the implementation. Trappers Ed has the same requirement. I’ve been asking about taking a class for four years now, ever since I started hearing rumblings about the class requirement, and because I’d like to actually learn some things. In those four years, I’ve only ever heard of 4 classes being held- all at the complete other end of the state from me.

Talking to someone who has been trying to get certified as an instructor, and he is very frustrated with how the program is being run. He’s been trying to work through the certification process for over a year.

If taking a required class becomes a bottleneck, at some point it’s a barrier to entry.

Agreed, I like the idea but in my experience hunter’s Ed courses in Montana are horribly run and absolutely a barrier to entry.

My experience is 2013-2016 so thing may have improved, but during those years I had several friends who wanted to take the class.

Classes weren’t offered year round which meant you couldn't just decide you wanted to get into hunting, and often had to sit on the sidelines an entire year to start.

Seats in classes were wildly low and/or geographically prohibitive. For instance you'd go on the MFWP website and there wasn’t a class in Bozeman, Belgrade had 25 seats, Helena 15, Missoula 25, those would all fill immediately and then there would be 200 in Miles City… I had 2 friends from Bozeman who booked hotels and did the Miles City classes. (Illustrative numbers not literal)

Online only isn’t great, but I have serious reservations about in-person only if at the same time there isn't a push to improve the hunter ed program with more instructions, better flexibility, etc.

 

[OntarioHunter]

There should be a study bill coming forward towards the end of the session that would look at hunter education in MT including ways to integrate the Master Hunter program into the FWP sphere so that the barrier to entry is lower. What we've heard over the last year is a lot of concern about hunter behavior from hunters, landowners and outfitters. If we're all seeing a problem, then we need to start thinking through the solution in a well researched & comprehensive fashion.

I really don't think the problematic behavior we are seeing in the field is due to ignorance. It's usually total disrespect for common sense and others' property. You don't educate away being a douche. Stiffer penalties and publication of offenders would be much more effective. Some asshole who drives all over a BM property and is also an employee of mine can expect to be looking for a job if I read about him doing it in the paper.

Nevertheless, I'm entirely in favor of putting hunters ed back in the classroom and eliminating on line course.

 

[Nicoli7153]

That is an exercise in futility. As much as I don’t care for him, He is a certified instructor and the club chose him. We are not forced to use it as hunter safety can be taken anywhere. It is just a requirement here for a child to have it. As long as ID offers it without a in person field day I will continue to funnel competent people there.

I have taken hunters Ed 4 times now and quite like their program.

Instructors are subject to review and some get booted for not being up to standards.

 

[brockel]

Agreed, I like the idea but in my experience hunter’s Ed courses in Montana are horribly run and absolutely a barrier to entry.

My experience is 2013-2016 so thing may have improved, but during those years I had several friends who wanted to take the class.

Classes weren’t offered year round which meant you could just decide you wanted to get into hunting, and often had to spring a entire year to start.

Seats in classes were wildly low and/or geographically prohibitive. There wasn’t a class in Bozeman, Belgrade had 25 seats, Helena 15, Missoula 25, those would all fill immediately and then there would be 200 in Miles City… I had 2 friends from Bozeman who booked hotels and did the miles city classes. (Illustrative numbers not literal)

Online only isn’t great, but I have serious reservations about in-person only.

Also have to look at not everyone lives in town and most hunter ed classes are in the spring. I know families that are 45 miles from town. You’re talking a lot of driving to take their kid into town every night for a week or more during calving season

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think it’s a great idea on theory. But I really worry about the implementation. Trappers Ed has the same requirement. I’ve been asking about taking a class for four years now, ever since I started hearing rumblings about the class requirement, and because I’d like to actually learn some things. In those four years, I’ve only ever heard of 4 classes being held- all at the complete other end of the state from me.

Talking to someone who has been trying to get certified as an instructor, and he is very frustrated with how the program is being run. He’s been trying to work through the certification process for over a year.

If taking a required class becomes a bottleneck, at some point it’s a barrier to entry.

Great point. That's why there is a delayed effective date, so that the agency can get the program spooled back up and new Hunter Ed instructors brought on board.

Your issue was exactly the reason the director opposed the bill. I do think that we will see some of the 400 or so Hunter Ed Instructors who have hung up their hat come back off the bench for this, and it's a great opportunity for folks to jump in and become an instructor themselves.

There was talk of running a bill to put the hunter ed program under the Jr High curriculum, but that's best if it comes from the board of education.

 

[Nameless Range]

I support in-person hunters education, and think we gotta find some way to raise awareness of the importance of the privilege. I also agree with others that if we are going to make it mandatory, we need be able to reasonably meet demand.

How many on here are instructors? My own support of this makes me wonder if I should volunteer for yet another thing.

I know creating FTE at the state level is a nightmare, but I could imagine one or two traveling instructors running 2.5 day courses year round across the state - Friday night, Saturday, Sunday - or some other configuration, and that could meet the needs of a lot of folks.

 

[Nick87]

How many on here are instructors? My own support of this makes me wonder if I should volunteer for yet another ththing.

Has me thinking the same...problem that I see is that the folks who probably need it the most and don't take safety as much of a priority probably will be the first to take the online or do online with there kids where they pretty much skim through it for them. The challenge is getting people to want to take it sefiously.

 

[marksjeep]

NR, so no dog in this fight. I volunteer for several youth development programs which require the youth to complete hunter safety as a prereq to participate. The kids I interact with retain the material better when learned via online. It's how they learn in school. They can complete the material at a pace which allows better understanding and they are not intimidated by a classroom full of strangers. No issue with a field day to complete the course, as long as it's actually available. But my experience with online learning and the youth of today is that it can and does work when administered appropriately.

 

[Hunting Wife]

There was talk of running a bill to put the hunter ed program under the Jr High curriculum, but that's best if it comes from the board of education.

Man, this would be fantastic.