Gunshow Loophole

[bigeasygator]

CA closed the loophole years ago, correct? They don't have shootings anymore do they?

Help me understand this logic?? This to me is like saying we still have people speeding so therefore we should get rid of all speed limits, including those in school zones and on city streets.

I don't think anybody thinks closing the loophole is going to stop every shooting but why should we make it easier for people to obtain guns who shouldn't be obtaining them?

 

[bigeasygator]

You're just a flamin' liberal who doesn't know how to think critically that is too eager to give up your rights.

Sadly you see this response far too much these days when trying to open up a sensible dialogue on this topic! I'm over extremists on both sides of the aisle!

 

[Elkmagnet]

To those who think that closing the loophole is wrong, what's the solution?

Somethings there is no solution.

Bottom line something horrible happened that day but you know what horrible things that don't involve guns are happening to different children all around the world as we discussed this so I ask, what's the solution?

What's the solution for sex trafficking?

Drunk drivers that kill babies?

Domestic violence?

What new laws will solve these horrible issues?

I'll hang up and listen to your response..

 

[rhomas]

I'm 59 years old, and a CCW holder. The reason I became a CCW holder was to facilitate gun purchases. Prior to Waco and the Government murders of Randy Weaver and his boy, I never experienced any problems in any of the states (SC, Ga, and Fl) I've lived in with a gun purchase. Then one day after moving back to SC from Fl, and after all of my guns were stolen during my wife's funeral, I filled out the paperwork and suddenly had to wait for the three days. Since it was just before the weekend, that actually meant four days, before I could pick up my new Remington 1100. The reason I was given was "You were born in Montana"!!!!!!! Less than 6 months later I had my CCW, and have never had to wait again, as long as I make my purchase in SC, and as long as I'm only buying a long gun, in Ga.

I go to gun shows, because my boy and I like to look, and I am buddies with some of the vendors. On occasion I have bought a few guns at a gun show, but never from an individual, since I like to have a record of purchase in case of a warranty problem. I have noticed that even the guys who have the signs up that they are "private sellers", all seem to be doing the NICS checks, already. I've even noticed that individuals who bring a gun to the shows and try to sell them are having to provide a lot of information and ID in order to even sell their guns. I have also noticed that at times, there is a fringe group or two out in the parking lot that appear to possibly be buying and/or selling guns...........which is already illegal, (at least in SC) which is why they scatter when a cop appears. So this tells me that no matter what laws are enacted, there will always be people who disregard them. Making it tougher on those of us who aren't doing anything illegal isn't going to solve any problems.

As to psychos, just how would anyone suggest they be eliminated from legally purchasing a gun? There is already a law against it (ever notice that question on the Federal Form that is already required), so are we going to restrict every type of gun sale in the odd chance that the purchaser is mentally unstable? Let's face it a true psychopath is also usually a pathological liar, they don't have any physical attributes that distinguish them from normal folks, and if they lie when they fill out the forms, is there any guarantee that the NICS will actually reject them? Maybe there should be a law passed that says these people should have "mentally unstable" tattooed on their foreheads so there would be no chance for them to slip through and make a gun purchase, after all that makes as much sense as any additional restrictions on legal purchases............especially at a gun show.

 

[Southwind]

Closing the gun show loophole would not of saved a single life in Newton, but a teacher with a 1911 very well could have.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Help me understand this logic?? This to me is like saying we still have people speeding so therefore we should get rid of all speed limits, including those in school zones and on city streets.

I don't think anybody thinks closing the loophole is going to stop every shooting but why should we make it easier for people to obtain guns who shouldn't be obtaining them?

What is being proposed that would make it easier? Is this thread about lifting all gun laws or speed limit as you say.

I am all for making it harder for criminals to get guns. The problem is that adding laws just doesn't work. Show me a country that had lots of guns violence problems who added gun laws and statistically gun violence dropped in a dramatic fashion. It's just not the answer.

 

[whiskeydog]

Historically, gun control laws don't reduce crime. So what would you be trying to do by introducing more gun control laws? Not a good idea.

Show me.

Show me a single study showing that the federal Brady Act, assualt-weapons ban, waiting periods, or background checks reduce violent crime?

Europe has all the laws that American gun-control proponents would like to see implemented here, but many of the worst shootings occur in Europe.

Countries that have strengthened gun-control laws with the promise of lowering crime have instead seen violent crime soar. In the four years following the UK's handgun ban, gun crime rose by 40%. Since Australia's law passed banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, and assaults by 24%.

Gun-control advocates conveniently ignore that the countries with the highest homicide rates have gun bans.

On the other side, Switzerland has a gun in most homes. The country does not have a standing army, but instead relies on a citizen militia. Due to this militia, 14% of households have fully automatic rifles, yet we don't ever hear of mass shootings in Switzerland?

Guns are not the issue, the moral compass of this country is...

 

[whiskeydog]

you want a solution? stop looking at guns and start looking at the media's coverage of these actions. the media is perpetuating the problem and needs to get together and agree to stop immortalizing whack-jobs looking for attention. when some psycho goes on a rampage, don't put their name in the news! from the moment the story hits the air, why can't we refer to them as "the coward"...that's what they are...that's why they only attack in gun free zones. if they knew they would get no name recognition for their sick acts and they would be buried with a gravestone in an unknown location marked only "here lies an unknown coward," i bet many of these incidents would stop.

 

[bigeasygator]

What is being proposed that would make it easier? Is this thread about lifting all gun laws or speed limit as you say.

I am all for making it harder for criminals to get guns. The problem is that adding laws just doesn't work. Show me a country that had lots of guns violence problems who added gun laws and statistically gun violence dropped in a dramatic fashion. It's just not the answer.

I guess easier is the wrong word. My point is its easy enough. I can think of three mass shootings where there were known mental illnesses of individuals who were allowed to legally purchase guns because they didn't check yes on a form. Stop and think about that for a second. I'm saying we all deserve a system more robust than that. I don't know what it is but the current system is a borderline joke.

Statistically speaking, I'd say the verdict is still out on whether gun control makes a difference. There's plenty of evidence that says it doesn't matter. That being said, I have no problem limiting dangerous individuals from acquiring guns. I'm not naive enough to think those measures are going to prevent every bad person from getting a gun. But I'm also not going to argue scrapping these measures that make sense because they aren't "perfect."

 

[ringer]

Corey Booker was yapping on TV and saying he wants to eliminate the "secondary market" for guns. Not just gun shows but the ability to sell a firearm on this site or any other. He said the states that did not comply should get their federal funds taken away. Facist thinking and definitely not constitutional but these people would march into your house and confiscate your guns today if they had their way. Who would give up their rights and trample on the Constitution for a micro second in time where a group of people decided to let emotions rule?

 

[sbhooper]

Closing the gun show loophole would not of saved a single life in Newton, but a teacher with a 1911 very well could have.

Yep. Just got an e-mail with a picture of an Israeli teacher carrying an M-16. No school shootings in Israel.

Scum needs to know that they will be confronted and not have free reign. Politicians want to make if feel good, so the right thing will not be done. These low life cowards pick on little kids because they know that they can make a big splash and have no resistance. If they can't do it with a gun, it will be done with a car or something.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yep. Just got an e-mail with a picture of an Israeli teacher carrying an M-16. No school shootings in Israel.

yeah, they just have mortar and suicide attacks, incursions by terrorists and are surrounded by hostiles. They're in a war, and they're completely surrounded by their enemies. I don't think it's worthwhile to compare a state in perpetual warfare to the US.

BTW - 2008 Mercaz HaRav School was involved in a school shooting. 8 kids killed. It happens there.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I've yet to see any data that backs up that claim. The US has the highest rate of gun crime in the industrialized world.

 

[Rat Fink]

Facist thinking and definitely not constitutional but these people would march into your house and confiscate your guns today if they had their way.

In my house they would be dead before they got both feet in the front door.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Corey Booker was yapping on TV and saying he wants to eliminate the "secondary market" for guns. Not just gun shows but the ability to sell a firearm on this site or any other. He said the states that did not comply should get their federal funds taken away. Facist thinking and definitely not constitutional but these people would march into your house and confiscate your guns today if they had their way. Who would give up their rights and trample on the Constitution for a micro second in time where a group of people decided to let emotions rule?

Please explain to me how going through a background check at a gunshow is an infringement upon your right to own a firearm.

 

[smarandr]

Please explain to me how going through a background check at a gunshow is an infringement upon your right to own a firearm.

That's the disconnect in most of these posts that leaves me scratching my head.

It seems to me consistency requires that the law be applied to all sales. However, like I said earlier I have reservations about its implementation.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Maybe the Nuge has an answer.

 

[Oak]

CA closed the loophole years ago, correct? They don't have shootings anymore do they?

Colorado closed the loophole after Columbine. Luckily, we do not have mass shootings in this state now.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Colorado closed the loophole after Columbine. Luckily, we do not have mass shootings in this state now.

The better question is how has the loophole slowed or stopped strawman purchases.

If we accept the logic that laws do not stop people from doing bad things, then let's get rid of laws against pedophiles. I mean, c'mon. It's not stopping kid rape.

 

[fowladdict]

Colorado closed the loophole after Columbine. Luckily, we do not have mass shootings in this state now.

Neither does Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana.

How has closing those loopholes affected gun violence?