Guide or resident needed for non resident to hunt in Wyoming.

[cgasner1]

Damn a guy for wanting access to more hunting opportunities! What a prick for questioning a stupid rule!

I can't believe virtue signaling made an appearance here because someone prefers a wilderness hunt! It's getting crazy out here.

Literally everyone in this thread agrees with you even @BuzzH. But it isn’t worth the effort and may be the only thing holding back 90/10 so no one cares. It’s not worth what could happen. If you can’t figure out a way to hunt a area and that’s your only obstacle then may wanna consider a different game.

 

[rjthehunter]

Literally everyone in this thread agrees with you even @BuzzH. But it isn’t worth the effort and may be the only thing holding back 90/10 so no one cares. It’s not worth what could happen. If you can’t figure out a way to hunt a area and that’s your only obstacle then may wanna consider a different game.

Why is it such an issue to talk about the problem then? There's a lot of smart people here. I'm surprised everyone just says "hell with it, it will never change".

I'm clearly not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being something that's impossible to change. While keeping the same level of current opportunity...

 

[Point Creep]

Keep complaining - it might work.

 

[cgasner1]

Why is it such an issue to talk about the problem then? There's a lot of smart people here. I'm surprised everyone just says "hell with it, it will never change".

I'm clearly not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being something that's impossible to change. While keeping the same level of current opportunity...

Go for it you make some progress let me know I’ll send you money for the cause. They aren’t telling you no you are. I’m more pist about not drawing a az tag than the wilderness thing.

 

[BuzzH]

Literally everyone in this thread agrees with you even @BuzzH. But it isn’t worth the effort and may be the only thing holding back 90/10 so no one cares. It’s not worth what could happen. If you can’t figure out a way to hunt a area and that’s your only obstacle then may wanna consider a different game.

RJ just doesn't understand how this stuff works. You can't just snap your fingers and get your way. He makes it sound as if all you have to do is raise your hand and the law is repealed.

This law was pushed and passed by outfitters. They are not going to just give up their position because I don't like their law.

There's no reason for them to negotiate from their position of power.

Only way it's going to change is if NR hunters make huge concessions, that's giving them outfitter set asides. The residents that also like the law and are negotiating from a position of power, they're going to want something too. Again the NRs are going to make another big concession.

What has to be weighed is, drawing 1 time in your life worth it to gain access to wilderness? Or, would you rather try to work within the methods in place to legally hunt the wilderness and draw 3-4-5 tags?

That's the question, because right now, I don't have a gdamn chip or a chair in this game.

If you want me to play, you have to buy me some chips, and that's being willing to settle for 5% of the available tags.

IMO, it's not worth it.

 

[rjthehunter]

RJ just doesn't understand how this stuff works. You can't just snap your fingers and get your way. He makes it sound as if all you have to do is raise your hand and the law is repealed.

Where did I imply it would be easy? If it was as easy as raising my hand, I wouldn't be talking about it. I would have it 10x over.

 

[Archer86]

Why is it such an issue to talk about the problem then? There's a lot of smart people here. I'm surprised everyone just says "hell with it, it will never change".

I'm clearly not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being something that's impossible to change. While keeping the same level of current opportunity...

That is where you are sorely mistaken you think you take this away from the outfitters they don't want to get a outfitter draw in place? Then you think the residents are just going to sit back and not try and get 90 10 at the same time you are out of your mind.

 

[BuzzH]

Why is it such an issue to talk about the problem then? There's a lot of smart people here. I'm surprised everyone just says "hell with it, it will never change".

I'm clearly not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being something that's impossible to change. While keeping the same level of current opportunity...

It's been tried in court, 3 guesses how that turned out.

Want to waste more money re-plowing the same ground?

Go for it, not wasting my time.

 

[rjthehunter]

It's been tried in court, 3 guesses how that turned out.

Want to waste more money plowing he same ground?

Go for it, not wasting my time.

When was the last time it was tried?

 

[BuzzH]

When was the last time it was tried?

How about you do some research first, get your shit together, come up with a viable option, then ask for support/help.

That's how I do things.

 

[BuzzH]

When was the last time it was tried?

1985 by the Wyoming supreme Court.

Since then the united states congress passed s. 339 reaffirming the rights of the states to manage wildlife within their borders. Further it allows states to discriminate against NRs any way they want to.

Long story short, even less likely to have a favorable outcome challenging the guide law.

Even further, I live here and have to fight my neighbors/friends to get things changed. You show up for vacation, I have to look them in the eye.

Like I said, you want to do this shit better, move here and it's all yours.

I'll raise my hand, second guess, and run static on your ass...

 

[406dn]

Go for it you make some progress let me know I’ll send you money for the cause. They aren’t telling you no you are. I’m more pist about not drawing a az tag than the wilderness thing.

You shouldn't be. The draw treated you fairly. Most can agree that the ban on non residents hunting in designated wilderness in Wyoming is a BS law.

 

[Big Fin]

Interesting to follow the discussion. Yeah, the law sucks. It is blatantly there for the benefit of a small hand of commercial operators.

But, and I think it is a big BUT, things would suck a lot worse for the non-resident if Wyoming went to 90/10 for deer, elk, pronghorn. Wyoming has been unbelievably generous to non-residents, to the point that I'm more than content to hunt non-Wilderness Areas more often than I would under 90/10 and let the outfitters and their NR dudes have that.

At times, I get hacked for not challenging the Wilderness outfitter law. I get it, in principle. I explain that we live in a world of practicality with limited time/resources. My time and resources, and likely the collective time and resources of the hunting community, are a lot better invested in trying to increase herd numbers and access to other public lands than to invest scarce resources fighting a law based on "principle."

I've had some of my best hunts in Wyoming. In 2017, we had a tag that had Wilderness Area in the unit. We hunted the area outside the Wilderness Area, which had far less pressure due to the guided NRs and the residents who were hunting the Wilderness Area. Marcus shot a bull opening morning and if not for a mixup between me and the camera guy, I would have shot a nice 6-point that evening. Those Wilderness Areas, in many instances, become a human-formed "want what you can't have" notion resulting in people overlooking a lot of great hunting.

I've never hunted a Wilderness Area in Wyoming and I don't ever plan on it. Keeping my fingers crossed that Wyoming continues to be as generous to NRs as they have been.

Carry on .......

 

[rjthehunter]

1985 by the Wyoming supreme Court.

Since then the united states congress passed s. 339 reaffirming the rights of the states to manage wildlife within their borders. Further it allows states to discriminate against NRs any way they want to.

Long story short, even less likely to have a favorable outcome challenging the guide law.

Even further, I live here and have to fight my neighbors/friends to get things changed. You show up for vacation, I have to look them in the eye.

Like I said, you want to do this shit better, move here and it's all yours.

I'll raise my hand, second guess, and run static on your ass...

I appreciate the response.

Haven't things changed drastically since 1985? NR hunting is an incredible source of funding for F&G. I can't imagine WYOGA can even come close to touching the number that NR DIY hunters are bringing for the state.

I imagine getting the law overturned would be the easy part when compared to keeping the current tag allocations. What can realistically be done by NRs relating to this issue?

WYOGA are the ones who fight for NR tags typically? So there is reason to support them, but also reason to oppose them as a NR if I'm understanding it correctly.

Is there anything that can be done that is overall beneficial?

 

[TOGIE]

Is there anything that can be done?

the point trying to be made is that there certainly is something that can be done but, the outcome would not be favorable and net-net likely worse for NR's.

it's just how politics work. when two sides go to bat in the statehouse concessions have to be made to gain votes, otherwise the side holding the power ain't gonna let go of what they already have without gaining something, or more, in return. losing tags in the public pool is a concession that very likely would have to be made to gain wilderness hunting access.

it comes down to a simple question: would you rather hunt wyoming more or hunt wyoming less? that's kinda what it boils down to. less DIY hunting for the NR being the likely outcome if you go to bat with WYOGA over this.

much bigger fish to fry. much much bigger.

 

[rjthehunter]

At times, I get hacked for not challenging the Wilderness outfitter law. I get it, in principle. I explain that we live in a world of practicality with limited time/resources. My time and resources, and likely the collective time and resources of the hunting community, are a lot better invested in trying to increase herd numbers and access to other public lands than to invest scarce resources fighting a law based on "principle."

I obviously see the attraction of the idea of fighting the law. 3 Million acres of access being opened up to NR hunters would be awesome, but not at the cost of hunting opportunity. The entire purpose of changing the law would be to increase hunting access and opportunity, not to increase access at the expense of opportunity.

I'm just wondering if there's a collectively positive outcome that has potential, but needs the right people to spearhead it.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Hunting opportunity in Wyoming is really good for NRs. Spending your time and money on such an issue is a waste when there are so many public land access issues across the west that deserve attention from hunters and others ... and have the potential to be resolved. Tilting at this windmill will only run you in circles of frustration.

 

[406dn]

Hunting opportunity in Wyoming is really good for NRs. Spending your time and money on such an issue is a waste when there are so many public land access issues across the west that deserve attention from hunters and others ... and have the potential to be resolved. Tilting at this windmill will only run you in circles of frustration.

This is likely a good take on this.

If there were to be changes to how NR hunters are treated by Wyoming, it is quite likely that they restrict the allocation of
NR tags generally and leave the restrictions on diy hunting in the wilderness by NR hunters in place.

There just is not a constituency large enough to successfully change the wilderness law.

 

[Bob-WY]

Crux of this is simple. Folks like Buzz and Bigfin have been in this fight for years. They know what it would take and the win isn't worth the cost. Others are newer and seeing how dumb the rule is, so want it changed, but don't have the historical context.

It's a dumb rule, but one that's most likely here to stay.

 

[cgasner1]

Would be a better cause to help fight the corner crossing and try to get that implemented across the west