Good news for eastern mt mule deer!

[8andcounting]

I think opening up A tags to shoot muley doe's is good.... not saying 4500 more b doe tags is good , but I think this may take some pressure off the forkys and 3 points especially on public land . that weekend hunter that only hunts public and has limited time may take a nice doe instead of searching for a buck . just my .02

 

[BuzzH]

How is killing a bunch of does now, going to translate to more bucks down the road?

Less total population, less does and less bucks.

I guess people don't like to look down the road 5 years, they don't like what they pretend not to see...

 

[Stubaby]

For the first time ever I agree with All of BuzzH's posts in a thread.

Just charge us residents $125 for a buck tag and another $150 for a second whitetail buck tag. Leave the does to give birth to more deer to hunt in the future.
I know some guys like venison but let's be honest.........mule deer flesh is not a staple food and I'll gladly pay more money to cover for the elimination of mule deer doe tags for the greater good and maturity of the herd.

 

[mixedbag]

Agree 100% with buzz on that last statement.Killing off to many does will not help hunting bucks at all.And in a few years, you'll be glad to find a forky.I don't agree that yotes aren't a MAJOR problem.I've watched yotes hunt out west for pronghorn in packs;adult pronghorn too.They are devastating to the fawns,aand am wondering why Mt doesn't collar any fawns to find out survival rates and what kills them.You would think you'd want to know those survival figures before offering more doe tags.Adding more doe tags and predator kills will not do much to ensure a good population.If landowners complain, then they should put themselves into block management.I think placing a certain amount of doe tags for block management and private lands only would be in the Mt hunters best interest.I've watched our deer herds here get destroyed by herd reduction years ago and it hasn't come close to recovering.The public lands here are virtually void of deer as compared to 10 years ago.In areas where I trap yotes hard,I've seen a comeback of the deer.I also agree that if its about money, it would be smarter to cut tags in half and double their costs
Buzz, wasn't region d in Wy cut back on tags partly due to high predation.I thought that's what I've read years back

 

[----]

For the first time ever I agree with All of BuzzH's posts in a thread.

Just charge us residents $125 for a buck tag and another $150 for a second whitetail buck tag. Leave the does to give birth to more deer to hunt in the future.
I know some guys like venison but let's be honest.........mule deer flesh is not a staple food and I'll gladly pay more money to cover for the elimination of mule deer doe tags for the greater good and maturity of the herd.

You really think doubling the amount of bucks that can be killed in Montana each year will help the deer situation?

 

[Stubaby]

Beats killing the does. Wyoming residents can buy a second WT buck tag. My main point was if its all about money charge more to compensate. I'm in sales. If you have a higher margin you don't have to sell as many "widgets" to make the same amount of profit as more "widgets" at a lower margin.


Besides, if someone is going to fork out an extra $150 they will probably be selective on what they shoot. Last I checked nobody ever passes up a doe in case there is a better scoring doe to be found later on in the hunt.

It was just a suggestion. Killing females is the fastest way to cull the heard, flock, gander, murder, school, band, or swarm of anything. Too bad there aren't queen does like bees. She could just pump out fawns by the thousands.

The next time a buck gives birth to a fawn will be the first.

 

[antlerradar]

I think opening up A tags to shoot muley doe's is good.... not saying 4500 more b doe tags is good , but I think this may take some pressure off the forkys and 3 points especially on public land . that weekend hunter that only hunts public and has limited time may take a nice doe instead of searching for a buck . just my .02

I can agree with this.


One of the problem with B tags is that shooting a doe takes the " fill the freezer pressure" out of hunting. B tags let the hunter fill the freezer and then become a trophy hunter the rest of the season. The result is more hunting pressure and more of the nice bucks being taken. A great opportunity for the individual hunter but got so good for everyone as a whole.

 

[Bambistew]

I know some guys like venison but let's be honest.........mule deer flesh is not a staple food and I'll gladly pay more money to cover for the elimination of mule deer doe tags for the greater good and maturity of the herd.

Come on now... In Montana its your god given right to shoot a deer, skin it, leave it hanging in the garage for a couple weeks, then throw half of it away. Rib meat, neck meat, shanks, "silver skin," etc? No thanks! I ain't eat'n that! Why eat the marginal stuff, when you can just shoot another.

Good luck changing the culture. The only value Montanans put on their wildlife is how many they can shoot.

 

[Stubaby]

Wow.....I'm agreeing with buzzh and Bambi. Judas.

I always run into guys looking for a "freezer filler" when they are 350 miles from home in a $45,000 pickup, plus quads, rifles, spotters, binos, ect.

My wife won't cook venison. I can hardly find someone to take my deer meat....and that's after I've paid for it to be cut and wrapped.

I wonder how many family pets get by all winter being fed antelope and mule deer from the yr before?

 

[Nemont]

I always run into guys looking for a "freezer filler" when they are 350 miles from home in a $45,000 pickup, plus quads, rifles, spotters, binos, ect.

My wife won't cook venison. I can hardly find someone to take my deer meat....and that's after I've paid for it to be cut and wrapped.

I wonder how many family pets get by all winter being fed antelope and mule deer from the yr before?

Amen,

 

[Nameless Range]

I wonder how many family pets get by all winter being fed antelope and mule deer from the yr before?

If someone doesn't like antelope, they should cut their tongue out, cuz it's broken.

 

[jryoung]

I know some guys like venison but let's be honest.........mule deer flesh is not a staple food.

Let's be honest, you just don't know how to cook. Backstrap, fire, salt, pepper, any maybe a basic marinade isn't that hard.

Might I suggest a copy of Buck Buck Moose, or Chef in the Wild?
http://www.amazon.com/Buck-Moose-Techniques-Antelope-Antlered/dp/099694480X
http://www.amazon.com/Chef-Wild-Ref...1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

[Ben Lamb]

Let's be honest, you just don't know how to cook.

Harsh.

Never pay to have your meat processed. Cut it up yourself and you'll always know what you have. Never had a bad mule deer or pronghorn that way.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, wasn't region d in Wy cut back on tags partly due to high predation.I thought that's what I've read years back

No, it wasn't because of predation.

I guess to explain what happened in D may as well start at the start.

The GF was getting a ton of complaints about the deer numbers crashing in region D. So, mule deer working groups were formed to address the problem.

The first thing discovered, was that the GF was over-estimating mule deer numbers significantly with the model they were using. Because of that, the GF was issuing doe permits in some of region D as well as allowing doe harvest on general tags.

That was in the years prior to the PVMDI working groups and the outcry when it was discovered there weren't the deer everyone believed to be there...(doe tags and unlimited doe harvest on general tags, sound familiar?)

From that, the PVMDI was born. Now, I have no problem with citizen/hunter based advisory committees, but IMO, there needs to be some pretty strict side boards as well as the input of the biologists. Further, any course of action taken should be based on science and not necessarily emotional policy applied by the members of the advisory committees.

What the advisory committee came up with to help increase mule deer numbers was (not in order of importance):

1. Put some of the units in LQ status
2. Predator control
3. Habitat enhancement
4. Eliminate doe harvest
5. Start using a more accurate population model.

There are probably some others that I'm forgetting, but those were the main things.

There were a few people that were very adamant about killing predators...from Golden Eagles, to coyotes, to bears. In response to that, the GF did increase black bear quotas a tiny bit, lion quotas were not being met so left them alone, and they did spend some money on coyote control.

The LQ areas that were taken from General hunting and turned to LQ had the quotas determined/set by the 5 year average of hunter use. That was a major reason for the drop in region D tags, a big part of them went to the newly established LQ areas.

There was also some habitat assessments started and some habitat work started as well.

I talked with the biologist the few years after all the changes. Deer harvest stayed essentially unchanged, mainly because the quotas were set high to reflect general tag hunting pressure.

Deer populations did see a bump, but IMO, it wasn't a function of killing a few coyotes in the Platte Valley, a couple more bears, but more to do with cutting the doe tags to ZERO and stopping general tag hunting of does. That, and the fact the right population model was finally being used.

What I don't like about how this played out, is that even though there were many opportunities for public comment, the final decision came down to the advisory committee. The GF pretty much adopted everything but the most "out there" ideas of the committee. I also don't like that there was a clear LACK of habitat data/assessments to be had, migration corridors were ignored, and some base-line data just wasn't there.

Its great to see the public involvement, but I'm not aware that a single person on the a. committees are biologists. Plus, IMO, the biologists should be making the decisions on herd management, and basing those decisions on science. Not on the perceptions of the public on what's best for the deer herd. IMO, the cart was largely put square in front of the horse with some of the things implemented. I don't fault anyone for doing what they feel is best, but lots of times, that really isn't the solution to the problem.

I think the main thing that helped the herd, with the slight bump in population, had a lot more to do with stopping doe harvest than any other measures, and by a long shot. The last 3 years, there is NO question that doe/fawn numbers being at a 30+ year high is 100% due with favorable weather, timely precipitation, and excellent range conditions. Good range conditions equal high fawn survival...for all kinds of reasons. More to the point, high doe/fawn ratio's make predation even less of an issue.

That's the long version, of no, the cut backs were due to poor management, not predators...at least that's what I believe the data shows.

 

[jryoung]

Take a 6-8" section of back strap from a tough old muley. Marinate 24 hours it in 1c plain yogurt, 3 cloves garlic minced, 1tbs fresh ground pepper, 1tsp paprika (hot, sweet or smoked), 1tbs fresh thyme sprigs. An hour before cooking pull it out of the fridge to come close to room temp. Remove excess yogurt and season liberally with sea salt. Cook it direct over hot fire until 130 internally. Remove from heat, let rest 15 minutes under foil tent, slice, eat and have your perceptions changed.

 

[SixPoint]

I'm a believer that with most game species, if prepared thoughtfully, are in fact quite good. Except for Antelope. I don't think you can screw up antelope, and I've never met one I didn't like. They are so delicious, and I wish they were the size of bison.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I'm a believer that with most game species, if prepared thoughtfully, are in fact quite good. Except for Antelope. I don't think you can screw up antelope, and I've never met one I didn't like. They are so delicious, and I wish they were the size of bison.

Totally agree with SixPoint. My wife won't eat elk because of the taste but we go out of our way to get antelope. We put 4 in the freezer this past October and all we have left is a few pounds of ground shoulder. I am completely dumbfounded as to why people don't like the taste???

 

[BuzzH]

MTTW,

I will dig around and see if I can find the study.

 

[Schaaf]

MTTW,

I will dig around and see if I can find the study.

I read the study last year and this website worked for me.

https://archive.org/details/muledeerinmissou00haml

 

[schmalts]

I'm not against doe tags if the populations are healthy. But hunters tend to be their worst enemy. No matter where you go the ones who complain the most about deer population numbers tend to be the ones with a pocket full of doe tags. The F&G can offer up all the doe tags it wants, but where the real problem lies is personal greed and those who will fill as many doe tags as they can and keep buying them even when they start to complain about deer numbers being down. It's dumbfounding. If no one bought the doe tags, the F&G can't push a stupid agenda. In the end, it usually comes down to $$$$$$