do we start worying about trump for president?

[schmalts]

She won't take your guns. But she could realistically appoint 2 court seats. Do you think gun rights will go unchanged even in the wake of all the states making changes as we type? Again, think of the big picture and not only the things that effects some. An example is open and concealed carry. Some may not give a crap living in the sticks but put yourself in or near Milwaukee right now and see if it is important.

 

[onpoint]

She won't take your guns. But she could realistically appoint 2 court seats. Do you think gun rights will go unchanged even in the wake of all the states making changes as we type? Again, think of the big picture and not only the things that effects some. An example is open and concealed carry. Some may not give a crap living in the sticks but put yourself in or near Milwaukee right now and see if it is important.[/QUO

Again, think of the big picture and not only the things that affect some. An example is public lands. Some may not give a crap living in Milwaukee but put yourself in Bozeman right now and see if it is important.

Geez, can you make this a little more difficult.

BTW............. Eric I love the country you live in and Schmaltz, I just may buy a set of Binos from you someday. Too bad we all "can't just get along".................

 

[Ben Lamb]

She won't take your guns. But she could realistically appoint 2 court seats. Do you think gun rights will go unchanged even in the wake of all the states making changes as we type? Again, think of the big picture and not only the things that effects some. An example is open and concealed carry. Some may not give a crap living in the sticks but put yourself in or near Milwaukee right now and see if it is important.

Look at it from the other perspective: Trump may appoint judges who feel that more money in our elections should be allowed, that warrantless wire-tapping and surveillance on our citizens is necessary for security or that corporations have more rights than human citizens.

Then look at the likelihood of a House of Representatives that has advanced some truly scary legislation as it relates to foreign policy, public lands, public water, energy and our safety nets designed to help our most vulnerable.

Add on top of that Trump's inability to surround himself with anything other than tabloid reporters, conspiracy theorists and extremists across the spectrum. The people that he has surrounded himself with believe in Agenda 21, the Birther movement, white supremacy and just about every other crackpot theory out there.

The people who worked for Reagan, Bush I, Bush II are not voting for Trump because of his dangerous fiscal and foreign policies. 50 of the top GOP forgien policy advisors/staff have openly called the guy a danger to world peace.

So, I would reasonably posit that people who feel that Hillary is a better choice might have some legitimate concerns about a guy who is a reality TV star with over $650 million in debt running the world's most powerful military & economy.

 

[Sytes]

Schmalts,
The reason I share Congress as more the culprit for our failed immigration status over that of executive orders is due to the convoluted state of our laws. Immigration laws are stacked one on top of the other. completely watered down regulations to be enforced by having way too many Visa types and each having their own little snippets of crap mixed in that dilute the true original intent that customs and immigration officers have a very difficult time enforcing. If it is enforced as originally intended it gets struck down because there's some other deluded BS mixed in.

So while I may agree with you that there are laws on the books they are unfortunately crap because too many politicians have dipped their hand into the jar and it is contaminated from enforcement.

Regarding deportations we do not have enough enforcement officers/agents to handle the vast amount of illegal over stays from crap visas, etc... to handle deportations to the level that would begin to clear them out of our country thus the best of the crap setting is to go after those that are deemed the most threatening to our country. And with that there are still so many that have committed crimes it has to be further refined to the severity of the crime committed. There are just not enough resources to manage a level that is noticeable to the average American. Of the volume there will always be those that slip between the cracks. Unfortunately the cracks are pretty dang wide.
There are so many factors it cannot be spelled out in a simple hunting Forum thread. Deportation cost alone are absurd! Why is that? Because we have so many congressmen w/of balls thus new direction is layered over and over and over and over to those directed to manage this area!
US citizens would balk at the dollars it would take to effectively deport each person as the general public would like to see and certainly not pay...

Cheers. Appreciate the various views shared. Agree or disagree... fun to ramble along with the keyboard crowd.

 

[BuzzH]

I have quit worrying about Trump for the reason Ben Lamb pointed out, and like I stated earlier. You cant alienate huge blocks of the voting public and expect to win. Old, white, men with conspiracy theories wont carry an election...wont happen, ever again.

The final blow to Trumps "campaign" was having breitbart take it over...stick a fork in Trump, he is wayyy past done.

 

[schmalts]

I think not all but a lot of humming birds will leave all by themselves if the feeder stayed empty. No need to spend as much if done wisely.

 

[katqanna]

I agree, we should crack down on illegal immigration issues. We could start by arresting and seriously fining all my inlaw Republican voting farming and ranching family in central and south central Texas that for generations have hired illegals because it is cheaper (make more profit that way) and you don't have to provide medical and such. Hell, they don't even need to provide running water and electricity to the sheds they "provide" for "living quarters", because that might tip someone off that people were actually "living" there. Really, it is more like just crashing at the end of the day because the illegals work over 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

We could then spread to their neighbor farms and ranches, I know, that also hired illegals. And in the true spirit of McCarthyism, I could then point out the businesses, farms and ranches around San Antonio, where I grew up, especially those with the rodeo circuit, that also hired illegals, again, straight party Republican voters. I almost forgot the farmers/ranchers and businesses in Scottsbluff, Nebraska that hired illegals, joked that they would tell people that they had hired Native Americans, "supporting the community". Again, straight Republican party voters.

Like drug users, if we cut off the illegals coveted supply of poverty living conditions and pert near slave labor employment, they surely wouldn't desire to sneak into the heaven that is the good ole U,S of A?

 

[schmalts]

Sounds like a good start to me. A jobs participants number at record lows, time to start making changes. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but since you did start a topic that revolved around laws not being enforced as they should I guess you aren't.

 

[Sytes]

Crazy aspect for the "look other way"... Americans willing to pay 6$ + per melon picked? Unionized labor, wages, medical, etc? More to the painting than just the view.

 

[schmalts]

It all comes out in the wash. Some things go up, but the end result is the proper procedures are followed and less money paid via social programs. It's highly hypocritical to bash jobs and production being done overseas and rationalize the exact same thing being done just on our side of the border. The exact same cause and effect. Nothing will change if nothing changes. Besides, the melon example is BS. We have a work visa program to support that labor need. But when umpteen times more workers are here than supposed to be they take public service and other labor jobs not intended to be done putting those supposed to be working out of work and forcing the wages down. There was a time you could raise a family by doing work that is hard to do so. Landscape, drywall, asphalt, roofing, ect. 30 years ago I made $20 an hour laying asphalt, no lie.

 

[katqanna]

I read a business article the other day (almost posted it, but got caught up in the game warden issue), a letter by a man who is a business owner in California, lifelong Republican, that stated he would not be voting for Trump. He discussed the difficulty with finding "unskilled labor" these days, that it was not really so unskilled. That too many younger people these days can't do the most basic of jobs and don't want to, all the while, there are people screaming about "illegal immigrants". He also spoke to the reality of paying low wages to illegals, to increase profits for a business.

I tried to find the article, couldn't, but found this one along a similar vein. California Farmers Short of Labor, and Patience

It is not that he has any trouble with the laborers. It is that he, like many others in agriculture here, is increasingly fed up with immigration laws that he says prevent him from fielding a steady, reliable work force.

“What we have going on now is a farce — a waste of time and money,” said Mr. Herrin, a lifelong Republican who grew up in central California, adding that the country should be considering ways to bring workers in, not keep them out. “We need these people to get our food to market.”

California is home to an estimated 2.5 million illegal immigrants, more than in any other state. Perhaps nowhere else captures the contradictions and complications of immigration policy better than California’s Central Valley, where nearly all farmworkers are immigrants, roughly half of them living here illegally, according to estimates from agricultural economists at the University of California, Davis.

That reality is shaping the views of agriculture business owners here, like Mr. Herrin, who cannot recall ever voting for a Democrat. In dozens of interviews, farmers and owners of related businesses said that even the current system of tacitly using illegal labor was failing to sustain them. A work force that arrived in the 1990s is aging out of heavy labor, Americans do not want the jobs, and tightened security at the border is discouraging new immigrants from arriving, they say, leaving them to struggle amid the paralysis on immigration policy. No other region may be as eager to keep immigration legislation alive.

The tension is so high that the powerful Western Growers Association, a group based in Irvine, Calif., that represents hundreds of farmers in California and Arizona, says many of its members may withhold contributions from Republicans in congressional races because of the party’s stance against a comprehensive immigration overhaul.

There is a woman here in Montana, worked in AZ for a solar company for a number of years, that personally handed checks to employees that they knew were illegals. They needed workers, didn't care.

For those of you who rally for rounding up all the illegals, sending them back home where they came from, how much are you willing to pay for your food if the business owners have to pay benefits and a living wage to workers? How many of you advocate rounding all these business owners up on buses in a sting operation and carting their white collar criminal asses off to jail?

 

[schmalts]

I read an business article the other day (almost posted it, but go caught up in the game warden issue), a letter by a man who is a business owner in California, lifelong Republican, that stated he would not be voting for Trump. He discussed the difficulty with finding "unskilled labor" these days, that it was not really so unskilled. That too many younger people these days can't do the most basic of jobs and don't want to, all the while, there are people screaming about "illegal immigrants". He also spoke to the reality of paying low wages to illegals, to increase profits for a business.

I tried to find the article, couldn't, but found this one along a similar vein. California Farmers Short of Labor, and Patience



There is a woman here in Montana, worked in AZ for a solar company for a number of years, that personally handed checks to employees that they knew were illegals. They needed workers, didn't care.

For those of you who rally for rounding up all the illegals, sending them back home where they came from, how much are you willing to pay for your food if the business owners have to pay benefits and a living wage to workers? How many of you advocate rounding all these business owners up on buses in a sting operation and carting their white collar criminal asses off to jail?

Do you or do you not agree with sending job and manufacturing overseas? Do you or do you not agree it's the same cause and effect as hiring illegals? Are willing to say our current path is sustainable? Change will hurt and take time if you want change. Are you ok with a future of importing all future skill and work? If not what is your solution? Crack open a few beers, ponder on that and get back to me. We are in this predicament because people don't want change.

 

[katqanna]

Schmalts, I don't think a number of you buying into the Trump fearmongering about immigrants and overseas jobs really knows wtf is going on. I don't think some of y'all know what the left hand of the Republican party is doing from the right hand, especially as far as business goes and the legislation they pass to increase their profit margins along the way. One issue being business economics of illegals here in the US and the other side that same issue is the exporting of businesses to other countries to capitalize on their cheaper labor. At the same time, there are these absurd Republican positions playing on the fears of voters, while raking in the bucks from both scenarios. Do you realize the hypocrisy of the situation?

I shop local as much as possible to help support local businesses. I buy fair trade so that when something is from abroad, hopefully, the people doing the work are getting a living wage (like my organic chocolate addiction or my English Tea or my made in USA organic thin mint cookies made with chocolate from cocoa beans grown at Rainforest Alliance Certified™ farms). I support local farm to market where the local farmers and ranchers get paid a real wage for their work, rather than these corporate mafia shakedowns that occur.

Years ago I read an awesome book, which I still have and refer to others, The Case Against the Global Economy, and for a Turn Toward the Local.

The 43 essays in this collection comprise a point-by-point analysis of globalization and its consequences that demonstrates that the future may not be as bright as business leaders tell us. Among the highlights: William Greider examines how General Electric works to shape (with the goal of controlling) the political arena; Ralph Nader and Lori Wallach attack NAFTA and GATT for undermining the sovereign authority of democratic governments; and Wendell Berry looks at the concerted efforts of big business to destroy local, particularly rural, communities in order to plunder the environment without opposition...

The contributors to this book, among them Jeremy Rifkin, Ralph Nader, Kirkpatrick Sale, Wendell Berry, Richard Barnet, William Greider, ecological economist Herman Daly and World Bank environmental adviser Robert Goodland, argue that the rush toward economic globalization, based on free trade and deregulation, is both harmful and reversible. Its consequences, they contend, include overcrowded cities, widening of the gap between rich and poor, lowering of wages while prices soar, destruction of wilderness, flattening of local traditions and cultures. The contributors recommend pursuing the opposite path, promoting greater economic localization through cooperatives and small companies that cater to local or regional markets.

I don't support Dell's setting up a computer plant in Ireland to take advantage of cheaper labor, then horrifically (seriously hurt Irelands economy) moving that plant recently to Poland, to take advantage of an even cheaper labor pool. I won't buy Rubbermaid because Walmart had a contract with them and refused to pay the increased costs of raw materials, so the company decided to move their company overseas. Same with Huffy, who moved to Mexico and China, ended up closing the Mexico and defaulted to China. Which leads me to boycott Walmart for these and many similar business dealing that have moved jobs out of the US. Do you shop at Walmart, any of you pissed off at outsourced jobs and manufactures?

I know I am not perfect, but I try like hell to be informed/educated and to put my money where my mouth is, to buy from businesses and companies that take care of their employees and as many as possible in this country and more so, as local as possible. Yes, there needs to be change and consistency in laws and enforcement. But I am not buying into the fearmongering marketing campaign of a man that is part of the problem you express concern about.

From FactCheck.org - Trump’s ‘Made in the USA’ Spin.

“But don’t you have to also lead by example?” Stephanopoulos said. “You know, so many of the products in the Donald J. Trump Collection are made overseas — Bangladesh, China …”
“Well, that’s because you can’t even buy them here,” Trump said.
“But if you want other companies to make their products in America, shouldn’t you make your products in America?” Stephanopoulos asked again.
“But they don’t make a lot of these products,” Trump said. “They don’t even make them here anymore.”

According to the American Apparel & Footwear Association, 97 percent of apparel and 98 percent of shoes sold in the U.S. are made overseas. But he went too far in claiming that products in the Donald J. Trump Collection — ties, dress shirts, suits, glasses, wallets and other accessories — aren’t made in the U.S. anymore.

“Many of AAFA’s members make clothes and shoes in the United States,” according to a statement released to FactCheck.org by Natalie LaBella, marketing manager for the AAFA. “The member companies encompass a wide range of products and brands – including large and small companies, public and private firms, and companies manufacturing for the commercial market and making uniforms and other apparel and footwear for the U.S. military.”

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there were 133,700 people employed in making apparel in the U.S. in April 2016. And in 2011, Lawrence said, 29 percent of the U.S. demand for textiles, textile products and footwear was made in the U.S., and 25 percent was made in China, with the rest imported from other countries, according to a joint analysis of the value added by each country in the production of goods and services that are consumed worldwide from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and the World Trade Organization.

“It is certainly true that a huge share of our clothing and footwear is made outside of the United States,” Lawrence said. “But the idea that we don’t make any clothing is rubbish.”

Typically, Lawrence said, it is more expensive to manufacture in the United States. So Trump may be right that it would not be cost-competitive to make some products in the U.S., Lawrence said, but he is wrong to say he couldn’t make those products in the U.S.

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

Current immigration policy is corrupt. In the case of H1-B visas for IT workers, industry is complaining that we need thousands more because we don't have enough qualified IT workers in the US. It appears that qualified means willing to work for $12.00/hour, because there are a lot of unemployed US IT workers. Industry does not want this "problem" fixed. If we truly understood the economic repercussions I think that many would choose to leave it the way it is because the extra taxes required would be lower than having the true cost passed on to the consumer. I think that congress does have the power to fix this, and if the executive branch won't execute, ther is another election coming in 4 years. Unfortunately, while everyone agrees that congress is made up of idiots, we keep sending ours back.

 

[tjones]

I worry that a bunch of middle age,cranky, white guy's have forgotten High School Civic's and American Government .

 

[schmalts]

No offense Kat, you answered no question nor offer any solution. And why you keep diverting the comments about republicans is baffling since we all know both sides are owned by big business.

 

[schmalts]

TJONES, whats funny is the definition of high school civics. It's the rights and duties of citizens. ....key word is last

 

[schmalts]

I worry that a bunch of middle age,cranky, white guy's have forgotten High School Civic's and American Government .

Remember when you were young and thought old guys were stupid?

 

[katqanna]

Schmalts, I did answer questions and offer solutions. For example, if I oppose outsourcing manufacturing, I will personally boycott those companies that do move and support those that stay, buying local as much as possible. If Walmart doesn't support Made In USA companies, forcing them to move their manufacturing abroad, then I don't shop at Walmart. It is a simple business equation that they can understand, especially if more individual citizens that don't want manufacturing outsourced do this, $ will get their attention. But, I am willing to bet, that the majority of people at all those "Make America Great Again" Trump rallies shop at Walmart and buy a plethora of products cheaply produced from other countries and eat cheap produce farmed by illegal immigrants.

And as far as pursuing other solutions I suggested, I am not going to personally quit dealing with Montana hunting/angling conservation issues to devote all those hours to seeing white business owners get arrested and haul their white collar asses off to jail for breaking illegal immigrant laws - but someone needs to do it, if for no other reason than to expose the hypocrisy. Besides, with those white crackers in jail, they won't be allowed to vote, that alone could shift the control in the House and Senate.

"And why you keep diverting the comments about republicans is baffling since we all know both sides are owned by big business."

This thread wasn't about big business in general - this tread is about Trump as a Republican candidate, that Republicans nominated for presidency, promoting those issues, catering to the fears of certain segments within the Republican Party!

 

[Gr8bawana]

So much for trump's supporters who were behind him because of his stance on illegal immigration and his racist atitude. It's also laughable that trump was speaking to african americans in front of an all white audience when he said they should vote for him because "what the hell do you have to loose?"

Donald Trump's campaign wavered Sunday on whether the Republican presidential nominee would implement the controversial "deportation force" Trump promised during the Republican presidential primary.

In a Sunday interview on CNN's "State of the Union," Trump's new campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, suggested the candidate's proposed force, which would forcibly remove the approximately 11 million immigrants living in the US without permission, may be off the table.

"What he supports is to make sure we enforce the law, that we are respectful of those Americans who are looking for well paying jobs, and that we are fair and humane for those who live among us in this country," Conway said.