Covid-19 Data, Models, References - NO DISCUSSION

[SAJ-99]

I don’t disagree that China is one of the few countries that can afford to retaliate. Two good questions though would be why and how? Are you suggesting that China is going to be angered by 3M keeping masks in the US until we have enough? Shouldn’t that just open up other markets to China?

Why? Because the have been insulted by the US for the last 3 years. How? Make sure everything they make is sent to somewhere other than the US first. China has zero problem sending PPE, masks, reagents for testing, actual tests, and anything else that is asked for to any European country, sometimes at a discount rate (if not free, but can't confirm). So your last question is the answer. China plays the long game. As you suspect, they are building trading relationships with the rest of the world. While we try to reduce our reliance on China, they are trying to reduce their reliance on us. Covid-19 is a good example of how this is happening, but people are too focused on case numbers and deaths to care. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

[Trial153]

Are we really arguing the price of moral vacancy?


" For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, but lose his soul?"

 

[Scrappy]

Grown a$$ men arguing like little children on a hunting forum.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Grown a$$ man arguing like little children on a hunting forum.

It's good to see that even in the face of a global crisis, the quality and usefulness of your posts remain the same.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Grown a$$ man arguing like little children on a hunting forum.

Welcome to the forum

 

[VikingsGuy]

Welcome to the forum

Now are you going to tell Scrappy what you had for breakfast?

 

[mtmuley]

Welcome to the forum

Arguements happen a lot to be sure. This topic shouldn't be an "argument". Some make it that way. mtmuley

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Now are you going to tell Scrappy what you had for breakfast?

*Something pithy related to wild game*

 

[Drake4]

I can’t believe how much time people waste arguing about this crap on the internet. It’s really unbelievable to me.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Are we really arguing the price of moral vacancy?

No, it's more like a real life "trolley problem". I think a fair point some raise is, that if more lives are lost over the next 5 years due to choices we make to save lives this year, are we actually doing moral good? Unfortunately we don't know how many actual lives we are saving or dooming today and we don't actually know what lives we are dooming or saving in 5 years. These are impossible moral dilemmas that face the worlds' leaders right now, but just because your thinking leads you to one answer over the other does not mean others who decide differently are morally vacuous.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I can’t believe how much time people waste arguing about this crap on the internet. It’s really unbelievable to me.

I can't believe people who are uninterested in the typical crap on the internet still waste their time reading hundreds of posts only to then post nuggets of wisdom like this. There are all kinds of threads on hunttalk I am not interested in or I think have spiralled into a waste of time - I just ignore them, I don't know why I would waste my time scolding all the others who see it differently than me. Carry on.

 

[LWC55]

No, it's more like a real life "trolley problem". I think a fair point some raise is, that if more lives are lost over the next 5 years due to choices we make to save lives this year, are we actually doing moral good? Unfortunately we don't know how many actual lives we are saving or dooming today and we don't actually know what lives we are dooming or saving in 5 years. These are impossible moral dilemmas that face the worlds' leaders right now, but just because your thinking leads you to one answer over the other does not mean others who decide differently are morally vacuous.

I agree with everything you said. The problem I see is that if anyone (government) starts to try and deviate from the current path, they will be destroyed by the media and painted as a heartless murderer of the next however many thousand corona victims. Even if they they determine a need to deviate from the current plan to save millions of future lives.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I agree with everything you said. The problem I see is that if anyone (government) starts to try and deviate from the current path, they will be destroyed by the media and painted as a heartless murderer of the next however many thousand corona victims. Even if they they determine a need to deviate from the current plan to save millions of future lives.

Yup - there is a strong "current" bias in human thinking that definitely favors the immediate relief of pain vs weighing future pain. As for the press and politicians, if 60% of Americans demanded that our leaders display long term thinking and openly rejected short term pandering, then the press and the politicians would fall all over themselves to show us that. Our press and our politicians are exactly what a majority of Americans have been asking for - and we are getting it. The press, media and politicians are more a mirror of Americans than a creator of them.

 

[LWC55]

Yup - there is a strong "current" bias in human thinking that definitely favors the immediate relief of pain vs weighing future pain. As for the press and politicians, if 60% of Americans demanded that our leaders display long term thinking and openly rejected short term pandering, then the press and the politicians would fall all over themselves to show us that. Our press and our politicians are exactly what a majority of Americans have been asking for - and we are getting it. The press, media and politicians are more a mirror of Americans than a creator of them.

How do you suppose that could happen if 99.9% of the media was focused on scaring the public to drive up advertising sales? Hypothetically of course.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How do you suppose that could happen if 99.9% of the media was focused on scaring the public to drive up advertising sales? Hypothetically of course.

Media produces what people read/watch - if folks looked the other way then the media would find something else to publish to get attention. If people feast on fear mongering they will get more of it. If they turn it off it goes away.

 

[LWC55]

Media produces what people read/watch - if folks looked the other way then the media would find something else to publish to get attention. If people feast on fear mongering they will get more of it. If they turn it off it goes away.

If mom only cooks meatloaf for dinner, guess what you are eating?

 

[BigHornRam]

I agree with everything you said. The problem I see is that if anyone (government) starts to try and deviate from the current path, they will be destroyed by the media and painted as a heartless murderer of the next however many thousand corona victims. Even if they they determine a need to deviate from the current plan to save millions of future lives.

The press in Japan is setting up their leader for destruction if things go south. Something strikes me as odd here. So far only 69 covid-19 deaths in Japan. Early on herd immunity?

Japan’s Limited Response to the COVID-19 Pandemic

With limited testing and little interest in social distancing, Japan’s coronavirus response is puzzling.

thediplomat.com

 

[LWC55]

Sorry. I'll take a break.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If mom only cooks meatloaf for dinner, guess what you are eating?

I don't accept that -- these trends have been built up over years - ample time for people to have voted with their feet. The problem is people say they want one thing but act another.

For example, the majority of Americans say they want more respectful political discourse and less acrimony but, the majority chooses to consume 99% of their news from only the left (MSNBC etc) or only the right (Fox etc) rather than consuming from a variety of angles so they can actually understand and appreciate the views of others. And high conflict politicians consistently generate more grassroots contributions than bridge builders.

America is getting exactly the media and politicians it has earned. Don't let us off the hook by passing the buck. Until Americans actually act like they want a different public/political outcome it will not change.

 

[406dn]

It is not about valuing life over money. It is about saving some lives now vs many lives later. It is trying to save the economy now and possibly overwhelming a healthcare system for a few months. VS having a worldwide depression and crashing the entire economy and healthcare system at the same time. Have you considered how many lives will be lost in a worldwide depression? It would likely be in the many millions a year and could last decades.

I'd consider decades to be hyperbole. The other end of the spectrum from the president saying the economy will bounce back very quickly.

If you can trust this administration to be honest and competent,, they said letting the virus run its course would result in as many as two million deaths. Their goal is keeping it under 200k lives.

Trump’s new coronavirus argument: 2 million people are being saved

Even as Trump adopts a somber, get-ready-for-the-worst tone, he has still sought to portray himself as a hero for his actions thus far.

www.politico.com

So you're down with 1.8 million more deaths so that it's business as usual?