Copper or Lead (Poll)

[buffybr]

Besides the whole lead toxic thing, are there any advantages to switching? I am a Nosler guy for rifle bullets and have good partition and accubond loads for my hunting rifles. Is there any other advantages to switching to etips?

When I got my .375 RUM and .300 Wby, I thought "new gun, new bullets" so I tried Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. In these two rifles I found that the Barnes all copper bullets produced good accuracy, and they have performed good on the game that I've shot with them. I still use cup and core bullets in those rifles for range practice, and I still shoot Accubonds in my 7 RM and Ballistic Tips or Sierra Pro Hunters in my .257 Ackley, and Sierra Pro Hunters in my .38 Win..

 

[brnsvllyjohn]

Central California has been non toxic for years and years so I had to have at least one rifle with non toxic loads. About 7-8 years ago I made the switch to copper loads in all of my rifles and haven't had a problem once I figured out what each gun would shoot.
I shoot Federal Trophy Copper and or Barnes bullets depending on which gun I am using.

 

[BWALKER77]

Probably going to all Nosler E-Tips this year, mostly because of how well they perform in my 7mm-08 and I am thinking this will be a year with a mantra of "One Season, One Rifle." That rifle will be my new 7mm-08.

You use the 140 in your 7mm-08, Randy?

 

[ImBillT]

I had to vote always lead because of the poll questions. I was going to give solid copper a try but ended up trying a bullet I had not originally intended to use on game that pleased me so much that I haven’t bothered actually trying solid copper. As a result I never gave cooper a fair chance. I can’t say I’m not curious, I’m just not curious enough to give up on something else that I’m currently pleased with. Maybe if I shot 10+ big game animals per year.

Steel works in a shotgun, and nothing works when you miss, but I think people have forgotten how good lead shot was. I can legally shoot cranes with lead where I hunt, and in well made loads it is definitively superior to steel.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I had to vote always lead because of the poll questions. I was going to give solid copper a try but ended up trying a bullet I had not originally intended to use on game that pleased me so much that I haven’t bothered actually trying solid copper. As a result I never gave cooper a fair chance. I can’t say I’m not curious, I’m just not curious enough to give up on something else that I’m currently pleased with. Maybe if I shot 10+ big game animals per year.

Steel works in a shotgun, and nothing works when you miss, but I think people have forgotten how good lead shot was. I can legally shoot cranes with lead where I hunt, and in well made loads it is definitively superior to steel.

Lead shot is definitely good... but I think interjecting steel v lead into a lead v copper conversation is kinda misleading (fully acknowledge not your intention) I'm just pointing out that copper is waaaaaaay better than steel, there just aren't many manufactures that make pure copper shot.

 

[rideold]

I've thought about solid copper shotgun pellets before and did some reading. It sure seems like a good alternative/compromise between the cost of Bismuth and steel. A little more expensive, a little more dense, a little softer. I don't think you can buy any in the US very easily though.

 

[ImBillT]

Lead shot is definitely good... but I think interjecting steel v lead into a lead v copper conversation is kinda misleading (fully acknowledge not your intention) I'm just pointing out that copper is waaaaaaay better than steel, there just aren't many manufactures that make pure copper shot.

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I agree 100%. I only threw in on the shotgun front because some other folks had. I’ll also be the first to admit that there are cheap lead loads out there that aren’t much better than really good steel. The “lead” loads that I use on cranes use nickel plated lead shot and I buffer them.

Not all lead shotgun loads are created equal, not all steel loads are, and although I have extreeeeemly limited experience with copper bullets, I’m confident that not all solid copper bullets are created equal.

 

[F250]

I have shot only steel shot in my shotguns since the rule was phased in during the mid '80s for waterfowl. Even when it was still legal to use in Canada, I only shot steel there. For turkeys, it's still lead for me. I still shoot lead bullets in my rifles ( Nosler Partitions, Federal Fusions, Winchester Power Points). I switched to all copper Barnes T-EZ in our muzzle loaders for Whitetails, due to the ridiculously great mushroom expansion they make.

 

[Buckyranger42]

I‘m planning to dial in a 30-06 using factory ammo with copper bullets. Have historically always used lead. I’m debating between 165gr or 180gr, with the intent of using the setup up to 400 yds on deer but also up to 200 yds on moose. Any thoughts are appreciated....

 

[Gut Shot]

I use what shoots most accurately from whatever gun I'm using.

 

[FLS]

I’ve always shot lead, mostly Nosler Ballistic Tips and Sierra Game Kings.
I tried Barnes 130 TTSX’s in my .270. They were as accurate as anything I had shot out of it and performed well on game. Antelope, mule deer, and a couple of local whitetails wanted to try them on elk but never had a shot at a legal bull. Hopefully I’ll get to try them out on one this year. They will be my go to bullet for that rifle from now on.
I’ve used TSS #7s on turkeys since it came out.

 

[Blauks]

I've shot both quite a bit with varying results. I think that traditional lead core bullets can preform well if you have the right conditions (moderate velocities and reasonable distances). If you shoot a high velocity round at close distance with traditional lead core bullets you are going to see a massive amount of mushrooming and possible fragmentation. If that same round impacts the same animal 250-300 yards away it may perform very differently and more likely more reliably! I like to shoot Barnes bullets out of my 300WM that is moving right along for elk, but I've found the Berger VLD's effective on deer and antelope out of my 243 and 270. I have taken 2 elk with the VLD in the 270 and yes I knocked them both down but ended up with bullet fragmentation and moderate penetration. Nevertheless they filled the freezer! But i prefer a copper bullet that holds together better for chasing elk with a higher velocity round.

 

[Laddbra1]

A question for everyone. How have your your blood trails been after switching to cooper?

I started using Barnes back in 2004 with the blue moly coated bullets, then the original TSX, then MRX and finally the TTSXs. I was a rookie at time compared to most and probably still am compared to some of you, but I thought cooper bullets were all that and then some. As I talked to more wise and experienced shooters, they would tell me they didn’t like Barnes because of the lack of a blood trail. I would remind them of the benefits (less meat loss, better penetration etc), but now over the last 15 years, I have had some of the same issues. Now I did switch from 30cal to 25 caliber in the beginning, because I was tired of so much wasted meat and I started shooting farther back to stay away from both shoulders. That could be part of it. In the last few years, I went back to TTSXs in 30 caliber, but stayed on the light side, 110 and 130 grs. Through all those years, when life, children and maybe a new rifle would complicate everything and I didn’t have time to reload, I would throw in some factory lead round and get the job done. Cooper has left me wondering and I have Accubonds on the bench for this year. Thoughts?? Thanks

 

[MThuntr]

I've not had any problems with blood trails. Actually I've never had an animal go more than a few yards with non-lead bullets. I have strayed away from gilding metal bullets (copper zinc alloy) where possible and have gone to pure copper (Hammer Bullets) which allows for better expansion at lower velocities.

 

[Blauks]

I haven't had any issues with copper bullet blood trails, like Mthuntr mentioned most hit the ground within a few steps. The farthest I've had trail (25yds) has a Mule Deer buck I double lunged and there was a very substantial blood trail to follow. One could argue for better blood trails when you have an entrance and an exit hole in an animal, and I've never not had an exit hole when shooting copper bullets!

 

[Gut Shot]

I wounded a bull elk with a 338 Barnes TSX one year. It was my bad shooting and not any reflection on the bullet. But there was plenty of blood on the snow to let me know I was still after the right animal even after he got on a heavily used trail. I caught up to him the next morning over a mile from the initial shot and put a round in his neck as he jumped up from his bed and looked at me over some bushes.

My only other experience tracking wounded animals is with Remington Copper Solid deer slugs on whitetails. My experiences have been the same, plenty of blood to follow. But these bullets start out at .45-.50cal and get bigger upon expansion.

However, my experiences with lead/copper bullets have been similar.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I just thought I'd add, I've been experimenting with Barnes TTSX in my .270s. haven't sent one at an animal yet but I'm becoming a believer. If you're a fellow .270er and haven't tried 130gn TTSX with Ramshot Hunter, you should do so. I just wrapped up some load development yesterday consistently getting about .75 MOA with an MV averaging 3124fps. ES is 17; SD is 6.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Pulled this box out for our turkey hunt... duck and pheasant

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I‘m planning to dial in a 30-06 using factory ammo with copper bullets. Have historically always used lead. I’m debating between 165gr or 180gr, with the intent of using the setup up to 400 yds on deer but also up to 200 yds on moose. Any thoughts are appreciated....

165.

 

[RaiderRich]

I used lead in NY but when I moved to California, my firearms came but I let friends and family take the lead I had. California being California I started investing in copper ammo. I have had so-so results with Federal Trophy copper but fantastic results with Hornady Superformance GMX 139 gr. in my 7mm-08. I will be trying E-Tip and TTSX ammunition as well. If Hornady or another ammo manufacturer starts putting out 6.5 PRC and/or 300 PRC in a nice copper load, I might look into those calibers for a future firearms purchase.

I had read a bit on copper and while I hear stories of it not working well for some, every time I have pulled the trigger on game with copper in the chamber, I have had a clean kill.

Shotgun wise I have found the hevi-shot/steel shot combo loads pretty good.