College costs

[Irrelevant]

but a Operational geologist in OG can make $250,000 + 20-100% bonus + stock options (often 3-20X salary) not to mention benefits insurance, vacation, 401k match etc.

Link? Apparently I should stop playing engineer...

 

[SAJ-99]

you can make 92K as a master electrician/manager at my organization. you get to be in charge of things like maintaining 12,000 horsepower pumps.

paid leave, paid holidays, unlimited sick time, over time, retirement plans

but i'm a low totem-pole-undergrad-degree-only desk jockey at the same organization and almost make the same amount with all the same good benefits (and also get overtime/comp time)

like @neffa3 and in line with @wllm1313 said the electricians and other trades can do very well. but outside of the established organizations and companies that structure you with great benefits it may not always look as good as it is if you have to manage those benefits yourself - being a contractor is rarely all it's cracked up to be from what i've seen.

all that said, i highly encourage people to look at the trade routes instead if college tuition is 100% on you. i'd be very happy being that master electrician for my organization, plus you get to live in granby/fraser/grand lake/winter park

I'm sure becoming an electrician isn't free. What does that run, any idea? I am pretty sure it involves a couple of years of book work and understudy. It isn't easy and there are limited spots in those programs so maybe you have to have an "in".

The chosen path often doesn't matter if the person is willing to work their tail off, learn from others, and not be a-hole at the end of the path.

 

[TOGIE]

I'm sure becoming an electrician isn't free. What does that run, any idea? I am pretty sure it involves a couple of years of book work and understudy. It isn't easy and there are limited spots in those programs so maybe you have to have an "in".

The chosen path often doesn't matter if the person is willing to work their tail off, learn from others, and not be a-hole at the end of the path.

i don't disagree.

but i think everyone here is operating under the assumed and generally true premise that getting an undergraduate degree is generally less "free" than training to become an electrician, welder, or plumber... relatively speaking.

 

[Addicting]

Military: there are a pile of caveats. Right off the top max of $65,000 for Army/Navy. That covers a lot, in-state at some institutions and degrees, but would barely cover 1/4 the cost of attendance of a lot of schools. Definitely an option, but not a panacea.

Not even close with your assumption. If your going to post about something make sure you fact check.

GI bill is roughly 77k right now spread out over 36 academic months for tuition and books. There is also a monthly stipen based on E5 pay. That money just goes in your pocket. Also while your in tuition is covered. If you get out and join the National Guard you get 250 per semester hour for up-to 16 hours in tuition assistance per year. This is on top of your GI bill that you would of earned on Active Duty.

As far as caveats, you have to be in good standing. Which means pass height and weight, PT, and don’t get a flag for legal issues.

There is a whole different set of dolar amounts if you join the NG right out of the gate.

Haven’t even discussed ROTC scholarships.

If you can’t complete a 4 year college and have money to spare by using the military. Your not smart enough and you should of never been in college.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

i don't disagree.

but i think everyone here is operating under the assumed and generally true premise that getting an undergraduate degree is generally less "free" than training to become an electrician, welder, or plumber... relatively speaking.

The number of seen for 'vocational training' so welding -> nursing average total cost = $33,000.

So not free by any means.

 

[MTGomer]

The engineers (civil, mechanical, electrical) I know making big money work for themselves or are executives that don’t engineer anything and haven’t for a decade+.

I don’t think people realize how much some in the trades make. Especially when salary comparison tools mainly show base salary. Sure, their $59/hr is pretty good, but it’s the call out pay, overtime, double time and per diem, etc where they’re making their money.

We have experienced guys and guys that like to take call outs making $1/4 million a year and we struggle to keep them because they can go do contract work in California for nearly twice that.

I'm sure becoming an electrician isn't free. What does that run, any idea?

our apprentices make in the low-mid twenties per hour.

It isn’t easy and a lot don’t make it through.
I think the app process is competitive as well.

 

[SAJ-99]

i don't disagree.

but i think everyone here is operating under the assumed and generally true premise that getting an undergraduate degree is generally less "free" than training to become an electrician, welder, or plumber... relatively speaking.

I agree, but it is hard to measure and compare the two. College may cost more, but salaries are higher. Just wonder what the true cost of trade school is. I don't think going out of state college is worth it, with the exception of the Top 10 schools, depending of field of study. Then maybe it is. Generally, pick the best public state school you can get into and study hard. The cost should be reasonable. Live on campus, buy a meal plan, etc.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Not even close with your assumption. If your going to post about something make sure you fact check.

GI bill is roughly 77k right now spread out over 36 academic months for tuition and books. There is also a monthly stipen based on E5 pay. That money just goes in your pocket. Also while your in tuition is covered. If you get out and join the National Guard you get 250 per semester hour for up-to 16 hours in tuition assistance per year. This is on top of your GI bill that you would of earned on Active Duty.

As far as caveats, you have to be in good standing. Which means pass height and weight, PT, and don’t get a flag for legal issues.

There is a whole different set of dolar amounts if you join the NG right out of the gate.

Haven’t even discussed ROTC scholarships.

If you can’t complete a 4 year college and have money to spare by using the military. Your not smart enough and you should of never been in college.

This was my source.

Paying for College — Today's Military

There are many ways for military service members to afford and further their education. Explore them here.

www.todaysmilitary.com

Would be curious to see a cost break down if you have a chance, so like 2 kids one does military the other does not. State school same degree. I'm not challenging your post I'm just not a subject matter expert, obviously.

Cost of education
Amount covered by GI bill
Amount you make while serving

Cost of education
Amount you make while working not in military during those three years.

 

[DouglasR]

Every fertilizer plant in Illinois is hiring.
No money up front.
You’re not gonna make 90k a year, but you can prob afford a little house in town and a descent used pickup.
But driving quarter million dollar machines isn’t cool.

And with the proper attitude and attendance, who knows what could happen?

 

[Tradewind]

I teach high school seniors, so I am constantly advising them about their respective next step. I also have children to plan for. A few observations:
1. Out of state will roughly double your cost. This expense makes no sense for a bachelor's.
2. Many professions encourage graduate studies since most bachelors' degrees amount to what a high school diploma used to be (basic literacy). Factor graduate school costs.
3. Most four year degrees and high GPAs are very easy to come by as long as checks are written. Engineering schools are often the exception.
4. The military has some great advantages.It pays for school and instills discipline that contributes to academic success. I made a deal with my kids that if they join the military and finish college via the GI bill, I will give them the equivalent amount of tuition and room and board of a four year degree to apply to buying a house or to invest. We were fortunate to have been able to start saving early and have college costs covered.
5. I grew up in construction and have a profound respect for the trades. Trade school is more valuable than ever before.
6. Many college campuses are consumed by Covid protocol and social angst. This has a negative impact on education. Online learning is a joke.
7. Kids and parents are being crippled with loans. To saddle an 18 year old with substantial debt is a failure of parenting. Kids and parents can always work more and save more. Going part time and paying in full is better than going full-time on loans.
8. Two years of community college and finishing at an in state school is a great option.
9. Pay for their car and insurance. This give you some leverage if they start screwing around.
10. Many private and out of state schools will offer generous scholarships to get you in the door. These scholarships rarely last four years.
11. Good luck.

Great post

 

[TOGIE]

I agree, but it is hard to measure and compare the two. College may cost more, but salaries are higher. Just wonder what the true cost of trade school is. I don't think going out of state college is worth it, with the exception of the Top 10 schools, depending of field of study. Then maybe it is. Generally, pick the best public state school you can get into and study hard. The cost should be reasonable. Live on campus, buy a meal plan, etc.

absolutely.

has that been mentioned yet before you? if you really gotta count the dollars live on campus, absolutely. be an RA for three years after being a freshman. that's a metric chit ton of money that can be saved if you do that.

though not a great way to have as productive of a social life, frankly. i'd practically go into to debt to have developed the friends and memories i made in college off campus alone

 

[YoungGun]

I did ROTC- for me, it gave me financial independence from loans AND from my parents- both equally important to someone when they have just turned 18.
Most state schools require you to fill your curriculum with electives anyway, and the ROTC courses take on some of that role, and for the most part are GPA boosters. PT keeps off the "freshman 15", and you get some level of discipline and are held accountable for your academic successes and failures since your Contract is riding on it. When I went through (2010-2014) we got a flat rate check of $600/semester for books, which if you bought used or rented, easily covered most semesters. We got a monthly stipend, which increased each successive year ($550/month as a senior) which, in Montana at least, covered my rent. And my tuition was fully paid for, as a then out of state student ($26,000/year).

Coming out of college debt free, with at least 4 months of required active duty training (AD Pay + BAH), gives a solid foundation before you hit the job market if you go Reserves or Guard. If you go AD, then you've got your job figured out for the next four years at least. Most employers have veteran preference for hiring, too, so you get a bit of a leg up there whenever you do start the job search. I can also say that, at least with Montana State University, our ROTC program could guarantee "x" number of seats in our nursing program, regardless of GPA (as long as they were in good academic standing), so for my cohorts that went into nursing, not having to maintain a 4.0 GPA or risk going to MSU-Northern was a nice perk. Military Science as a whole fell under the Dean of Engineering, so for those classmates, some of their course work crossed over.

The Military Academies and Schools are an option, but I would highly recommend ROTC for the student that is looking for a more traditional college experience, with 99% of the perks that the others provide. Students can also give it a try for a semester/year/two years before fully committing.

For in state students, ROTC would write a flat check for $10k to cover tuition + room and board. Good options for most circumstances.

 

[SAJ-99]

absolutely.

has that been mentioned yet before you? if you really gotta count the dollars live on campus, absolutely. be an RA for three years after being a freshman. that's a metric chit ton of money that can be saved if you do that.

though not a great way to have as productive of a social life, frankly. i'd practically go into to debt to have developed the friends and memories i made in college off campus alone

We can all look back and wonder how we would change the decisions we made. My view is that you have to make sacrifices at some point in your life. Best (but often hardest) to do it early in life.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Link? Apparently I should stop playing engineer...

I’m in the wrong field as well.

 

[YoungGun]

As a follow up- USAA offered those of us who commissioned a flat $25,000 loan with 0% interest for the first year, and then incredibly low interest after that (don't remember the exact figure since I never had to pay interest). Most of us took this loan to pay off any outstanding debts we did have from school that carried higher interest rates. Some used them for moving expenses. Others did the real Army thing and bought a German Shepherd pup, an F-250, and a couple guns (not the wisest of uses).

 

[Lilhowie83]

How many of you got help from your parents to pay for school?
At the end of the day I think I might just rather weld wet pipe in a ditch than sit through the lifetime of math classes with my good boy face on required to be an electrical engineer.
Different strokes for different folks.
If you kid’s an irresponsible asshole prob don’t encourage them to take on 50k+ of unsecured debt for a piece of paper that might get them a job that they’re not sure they’re gonna like.
But definitely make them get a full time job.

This is exactly why I went into the trades and not to school. I got zero help from my parents.

 

[Lilhowie83]

I'm sure becoming an electrician isn't free. What does that run, any idea? I am pretty sure it involves a couple of years of book work and understudy. It isn't easy and there are limited spots in those programs so maybe you have to have an "in".

The chosen path often doesn't matter if the person is willing to work their tail off, learn from others, and not be a-hole at the end of the path.

Most of the major electricians in my area pay for their apprentices to go to school. Most of the classes are for four hours every night after you work your normal shift, so it is very doable.

 

[SAJ-99]

This is exactly why I went into the trades and not to school. I got zero help from my parents.

I got zero help from my parents. I went the opposite route. I guess the point is there is no one route that is best.

Most of the major electricians in my area pay for their apprentices to go to school. Most of the classes are for four hours every night after you work your normal shift, so it is very doable.

But I doubt it is easy. I think a lot of young people these days choose the easy path rather than thinking through the long term. If the decision is purely financial driven, then they are over simplifying a complex decision.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I got zero help from my parents. I went the opposite route. I guess the point is there is no one route that is best.

But I doubt it is easy. I think a lot of young people these days choose the easy path rather than thinking through the long term. If the decision is purely financial driven, then they are over simplifying a complex decision.

Can't speak for students today, but I had zero 'education' in what path to take/student loans/ trades/ROTC etc.

Seems like there should be a mandatory high schools class, "WTF are you going to do next," chit reading threads like this and hearing about different paths would be a great first start.

Maybe those exist in some schools.

... but thank god I took AP Calculus.... I mean gosh, so useful.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I did ROTC- for me, it gave me financial independence from loans AND from my parents- both equally important to someone when they have just turned 18.
Most state schools require you to fill your curriculum with electives anyway, and the ROTC courses take on some of that role, and for the most part are GPA boosters. PT keeps off the "freshman 15", and you get some level of discipline and are held accountable for your academic successes and failures since your Contract is riding on it. When I went through (2010-2014) we got a flat rate check of $600/semester for books, which if you bought used or rented, easily covered most semesters. We got a monthly stipend, which increased each successive year ($550/month as a senior) which, in Montana at least, covered my rent. And my tuition was fully paid for, as a then out of state student ($26,000/year).

Coming out of college debt free, with at least 4 months of required active duty training (AD Pay + BAH), gives a solid foundation before you hit the job market if you go Reserves or Guard. If you go AD, then you've got your job figured out for the next four years at least. Most employers have veteran preference for hiring, too, so you get a bit of a leg up there whenever you do start the job search. I can also say that, at least with Montana State University, our ROTC program could guarantee "x" number of seats in our nursing program, regardless of GPA (as long as they were in good academic standing), so for my cohorts that went into nursing, not having to maintain a 4.0 GPA or risk going to MSU-Northern was a nice perk. Military Science as a whole fell under the Dean of Engineering, so for those classmates, some of their course work crossed over.

The Military Academies and Schools are an option, but I would highly recommend ROTC for the student that is looking for a more traditional college experience, with 99% of the perks that the others provide. Students can also give it a try for a semester/year/two years before fully committing.

For in state students, ROTC would write a flat check for $10k to cover tuition + room and board. Good options for most circumstances.

How did ROTC influence you career choice/ major etc? Do you think it steered you in a specific direction?