CO 2nd draw stats are posted.

[grizzly_]

I made the same comment before the draw. Also given the back and forth I’ve had with @BuzzH and @VikingsGuy about draws I’m not sure it’s actually legal.

Can you run a draw, give youth first chance at all tags? Not a separate youth quota or something but just say they get first pick. Can you just discriminate for a whole class of people?

That's an interesting point. Imagine if they only allowed dad's with children to draw certain tags by saying the state was promoting young people's exposure to the outdoors. That would almost certainly not withstand scrutiny, but the basis of the "youth-only" tags seems to be the same.

 

[SCliving Outdoors]

I don’t have kids and I’m happy they’re getting tags bc it’s the future of hunting (as long as it’s really the kids behind the rifles). With that said I definitely feel like CO pulled a fast one on me, lol.

Fooled me once… there won’t be a twice.

 

[rogerthat]

I had read the process and knew my application was very likely a waste of money....yet I still did it...honestly like applying for limited entry for most of the west...yet I still do it. And I agree with wllm the kids can cram it up their cram hole...future of hunting... give me a break...most of the little crappers probably won't even hunt when they become adults

 

[Thomas11]

I didn’t apply for this very reason knowing it would be a donation. This whole thing was a joke honestly. CPW has literally changed this secondary draw/ leftover/Re-Issue process every yr for some tine now. I wish they would get w something and stick to it

 

[rustednuts]

@cedahm and everyone, I'm not anti-youth opportunity far from it.

But like... youth are allowed in the primary draw obviously. So you could put your kid down for a B tag as first choice.

I just don't understand the argument and/or haven't heard one for youth preference, would love to hear one, very much amenable to changing my mind and even a youth only draw.

I just can't wrap my head around why we need to make sure youth can draw one of 3, 4 -res draw point, tags before adults gets a chance.

For that matter why a cow tag with 75 left?

"Kids are the next generation" totally agree. I think the early youth seasons are great. Love the options to turn your buck tag in for a doe tag and extend the season. This one though... huh...

I fully agree, in some ways I see the youth hunts as detrimental to long term future of hunting. Make them a first time hunter pool for hunters that have not drawn a big game tag. This would give adult onset hunters an entry into some better hunters to gain experience. I've seen several youth in AZ that have drawn tags that take 20+ points to draw multiple times before they are 18. A lot of time it is a daddy hunt not a youth hunt.

 

[cedahm]

Can you run a draw, give youth first chance at all tags? Not a separate youth quota or something but just say they get first pick. Can you just discriminate for a whole class of people?

oh jeez, don’t give anyone a push to litigate. You know someone will try.

I didn’t apply for this very reason knowing it would be a donation. This whole thing was a joke honestly. CPW has literally changed this secondary draw/ leftover/Re-Issue process every yr for some tine now. I wish they would get w something and stick to it

I think most everyone here agree on this, but it sure seems like CPW staff are doing what they can to add bandaids and some level of fairness (real or perceived) to a fundamentally flawed process (allowing tag returns for any reason in the first place AND allowing people to keep their points) supported by outdated and/or flawed technology. They also appear to consider public opinion on these topics. But they are treating symptoms with Advil when invasive surgery is the real answer.

Even the existence of "unpaid" (versus returned) tags is a result of the flawed process that takes so long to execute. If you can do the entire draw in <5 days (the general limit on a CC authorization hold), there's no need to allow for an additional two weeks for payment of drawn tags. You could do an authorization hold on the card for the tag amount and then the transaction dies on the vine if you don't draw or it gets captured if you do. Add the $0.25 typical fee to the application to cover the hold cost.

Of course - going from ~40 days to <5 days is a big ask.

If CPW was a for-profit business, they'd just be auctioning tags to capture their full market value, so there's a lot of grey area to play in between that and the complicated, seemingly never-ending tag distribution process we have today.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

oh jeez, don’t give anyone a push to litigate. You know someone will try.


I think most everyone here agree on this, but it sure seems like CPW staff are doing what they can to add bandaids and some level of fairness (real or perceived) to a fundamentally flawed process (allowing tag returns for any reason in the first place AND allowing people to keep their points) supported by outdated and/or flawed technology. They also appear to consider public opinion on these topics. But they are treating symptoms with Advil when invasive surgery is the real answer.

Even the existence of "unpaid" (versus returned) tags is a result of the flawed process that takes so long to execute. If you can do the entire draw in <5 days (the general limit on a CC authorization hold), there's no need to allow for an additional two weeks for payment of drawn tags. You could do an authorization hold on the card for the tag amount and then the transaction dies on the vine if you don't draw or it gets captured if you do. Add the $0.25 typical fee to the application to cover the hold cost.

Of course - going from ~40 days to <5 days is a big ask.

If CPW was a for-profit business, they'd just be auctioning tags to capture their full market value, so there's a lot of grey area to play in between that and the complicated, seemingly never-ending tag distribution process we have today.

Lol can you imagine if they did a statewide reverse auction for every hunt code. Start at $200,000, then back down incrementally, over the course of a couple of days. Once a tag hits zero it restarts at $2000 and you can pick up it as a second tag.

 

[vanish]

On the money side - I imagine they spend a large chunk of change (between design, config, support and labor) to execute the second draw so it likely wasn't very "profitable". Even if they had just a handful of consultants and employees working on it for a few months, that $400K was spent. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn it was actually a loss to execute the secondary draw.

Maybe this first go round, but assuming they don't change how it works, it should be a very good return for CPW in the future.

My concern is they'll see all us stupid adults throwing money at them ( though I did draw a very undesirable pronghorn doe tag that still has leftovers ) and next thing you know we'll have weekly draws for re-issued tags. Its actually an idea I thought was a good idea... but didn't attach the $7/$9 fee.

 

[cedahm]

Lol can you imagine if they did a statewide reverse auction for every hunt code. Start at $200,000, then back down incrementally, over the course of a couple of days. Once a tag hits zero it restarts at $2000 and you can pick up it as a second tag.

I'd also add a loyalty program like the hotels and airlines and then sell loyalty points to credit card issuers - "CPW Rewards Visa", etc. Then an Authorized reseller program to have a 'wholesale' outlet - oh, wait...Preference points and Landowner vouchers. Guess they beat me to that /sarcasm

Maybe this first go round, but assuming they don't change how it works, it should be a very good return for CPW in the future.

They have to change how it works otherwise it's going to cost close to the same with all the back and forth data transfers, etc.

 

[WildWill]

As a fan of the office I felt we needed the whole story.

 

[vanish]

They have to change how it works otherwise it's going to cost close to the same with all the back and forth data transfers, etc.

Pretty sure they eliminated that and everything is on one system as of about 2 years ago.

 

[cedahm]

Pretty sure they eliminated that and everything is on one system as of about 2 years ago.

I'll have to go back and rewatch the commission meetings, I know that was the project goal they were working on, but didn't think it was complete (although certainly portions are - notice the 'AspiraOne' tags on the recent draw reports, for example).

Either way - I'd be shocked if there wasnt a few consultants and employees still working on draw activities/support/changes. Figure an average blended rate of $150-200/hr for the consultants and $60-75/hr for the employees and it adds up pretty quick.

But this is mostly informed speculation on my part. I share your opinion on weekly/bi-weekly draws (believe we had a thread involving that a year or two ago) but again that would just be treating the symptom.

 

[D_Walt]

I read the rules in the second draw and laughed about the fact that adults were still going to apply for anything other than b-list type tags. I did not apply for myself, but I do have a 14 year old daughter who I put in for a good buck tag and she drew it…she is still on cloud 9, she’s been hiking all over the neighborhood since Tuesday evening with a 30lbs in a back pack and doing lunges to get in mountain shape. Hard for me to complain about the system that worked out great for me but I could see how folks don’t like it

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I read the rules in the second draw and laughed about the fact that adults were still going to apply for anything other than b-list type tags. I did not apply for myself, but I do have a 14 year old daughter who I put in for a good buck tag and she drew it…she is still on cloud 9, she’s been hiking all over the neighborhood since Tuesday evening with a 30lbs in a back pack and doing lunges to get in mountain shape. Hard for me to complain about the system that worked out great for me but I could see how folks don’t like it

I’m pretty stoked about any kid that draws a tough tag and goes hunting with their parents, I know those trips are fleeting.

Now… “it’s my daughters buck” mmmhhhhmmm

 

[D_Walt]

I’m pretty stoked about any kid that draws a tough tag and goes hunting with their parents, I know those trips are fleeting.

Now… “it’s my daughters buck” mmmhhhhmmm

“Honest officer, my daughter shot this buck then went back home and went to bed. I told her I would take pictures and pack it out since I’m such a great Dad”

 

[appaloosa]

Fooled me. Enjoy my $9 Colorado!

 

[rmyoung1]

Fooled me. Enjoy my $9 Colorado!

Yeah but that’s a stud ram in your avatar.