CO 2nd draw stats are posted.

Pelican said:
cpw.state.co.us

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...
cpw.state.co.us
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Wow, some insane numbers there. I’ll be on the “kids only” program going forward.
 
All of the tags in the unit that I was interested in were swooped up by youths. There were over 100 resident and 100 non resident adults that applied to. Thats a lot of additional application fee revenue for people that didn't really have a chance.
 
What a joke.

Basically every unit that didn't have enough quota to be available in Re-issue went to kids.
 
roravetz said:
All of the tags in the unit that I was interested in were swooped up by youths. There were over 100 resident and 100 non resident adults that applied to. Thats a lot of additional application fee revenue for people that didn't really have a chance.
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Yeah it's bull shit, I'm sorry but having people apply for something they don't have a chance at is stupid.

Make it a youth only draw, fine. But this is straight up garbage.
 
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see the adult draw number next year. I don't want to predict how many just aren't paying attention, but.... wow. A lot of app fees for literally no chance.
 
wllm1313 said:
Yeah it's bull shit, I'm sorry but having people apply for something they don't have a chance at is stupid.

Make it a youth only draw, fine. But this is straight up garbage.
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TOGIE said:
credit where credit is due

nobody knows how to generate more revenue without raising license fees or increasing quota better than cpw
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While I don't subscribe to the 'CPW iS onLy abOut tHe $$$' sentiment as a general rule - it works out to $404,819 in application fees. But to @wllm1313 point, a large number of that was a true donation after-the-fact which is silly.

rmyoung1 said:
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see the adult draw number next year. I don't want to predict how many just aren't paying attention, but.... wow. A lot of app fees for literally no chance.
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Speaking of folks not paying attention, I'll be heading over to the CO Facebook groups shortly to watch the show on this...I'll lay 10:1 that there is already a comment posted about how many wolves $400K will purchase.
 
cedahm said:
While I don't subscribe to the 'CPW iS onLy abOut tHe $$$' sentiment as a general rule - it works out to $404,819 in application fees.
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well no, they're not all about the money. but what fun is that sentiment 😁

but really, i do belive, like any good crack addict they have a problem that the first step to recovery is admitting you have. i.e. a massive revenue stream dependent on unsustainable unlimited NR and R elk tag sales. unsustainable tag numbers (which may be an opinion) equals an unsustainable revenue source that has to be rectified

back to poking fun. if they can keep up this revenue stream in the form of this joke of a secondary draw, then once otc goes away i feel confident they'll have already found the replacement money without us realizing they "raised the prices on us" by getting us to unwittingly fork over more money without getting tags ;)
 
@cedahm and everyone, I'm not anti-youth opportunity far from it.

But like... youth are allowed in the primary draw obviously. So you could put your kid down for a B tag as first choice.

I just don't understand the argument and/or haven't heard one for youth preference, would love to hear one, very much amenable to changing my mind and even a youth only draw.

I just can't wrap my head around why we need to make sure youth can draw one of 3, 4 -res draw point, tags before adults gets a chance.

For that matter why a cow tag with 75 left?

"Kids are the next generation" totally agree. I think the early youth seasons are great. Love the options to turn your buck tag in for a doe tag and extend the season. This one though... huh...
 
roravetz said:
All of the tags in the unit that I was interested in were swooped up by youths. There were over 100 resident and 100 non resident adults that applied to. Thats a lot of additional application fee revenue for people that didn't really have a chance.
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Same here. Pretty much should just do a youth draw. Then an adult draw so we know what we can apply for. Should also make it resident youth, resident adult. Then nonres youth, nonres adult.
 
wllm1313 said:
@cedahm and everyone, I'm not anti-youth opportunity far from it.

But like... youth are allowed in the primary draw obviously. So you could put your kid down for a B tag as first choice.

I just don't understand the argument and/or haven't heard one for youth preference, would love to hear one, very much amenable to changing my mind and even a youth only draw.

I just can't wrap my head around why we need to make sure youth can draw one of 3, 4 -res draw point, tags before adults gets a chance.

For that matter why a cow tag with 75 left?

"Kids are the next generation" totally agree. I think the early youth seasons are great. Love the options to turn your buck tag in for a doe tag and extend the season. This one though... huh...
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I agree with basically all of that. I have a 12yo about to get his Hunter Ed and even so, I still feel similarly. I was able to take advantage of the late season antlerless extensions with my Nephew several times when he was still a youth and that in and of itself is a great program.

At a very high level, while I share the general opinion that this year's secondary draw was silly if you were an adult looking at reissued tags, it definitely aligns with their stated goal of compressing the overall draw cycles and relieving some of the reissue-list volume issues in August. Which is helpful for everyone. The related consequence was that many, many people paid to apply for tags that were not available.

That is analogous to when they went to "app fee only" in 2018. Their goal was to get rid of the horrifically expensive and wildly inefficient Primary draw refund process. They accomplished that goal. However, the secondary effect was that 724 million people applied for MSG. They course-corrected that a year later (which is very short in government agency Business/IT operations), and probably already have a course-correction in planning for 2022 for the 2nd draw (and are also likely to have more make it on the board after the inevitable flurry of angry customer contacts).

On the money side - I imagine they spend a large chunk of change (between design, config, support and labor) to execute the second draw so it likely wasn't very "profitable". Even if they had just a handful of consultants and employees working on it for a few months, that $400K was spent. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn it was actually a loss to execute the secondary draw.
 
wllm1313 said:
Yeah it's bull shit, I'm sorry but having people apply for something they don't have a chance at is stupid.

Make it a youth only draw, fine. But this is straight up garbage.
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To play devil's advocate nobody made anybody apply it was our choice. If anything people applying for tags they knew there was next to know chance of drawing are the "stupid" ones.
 
I was 1 for 3 in the second draw. One was a long shot and the other two were moderate. All in all I am happy to have a deer tag in hand now and OTC for elk is fine for me this year.
 
WildWill said:
To play devil's advocate nobody made anybody apply it was our choice. If anything people applying for tags they knew there was next to know chance of drawing are the "stupid" ones.
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I made the same comment before the draw. Also given the back and forth I’ve had with @BuzzH and @VikingsGuy about draws I’m not sure it’s actually legal.

Can you run a draw, give youth first chance at all tags? Not a separate youth quota or something but just say they get first pick. Can you just discriminate for a whole class of people?
 
wllm1313 said:
I made the same comment before the draw. Also given the back and forth I’ve had with @BuzzH and @VikingsGuy about draws I’m not sure it’s actually legal.

Can you run a draw, give youth first chance at all tags? Not a separate youth quota or something but just say they get first pick. Can you just discriminate for a whole class of people?
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Apparently they can. I'm fine with the discrimination as long as it benefits children and the victims are adults who lost out on the regular draw, want a better tag, or extra tags. Then again my nephew just drew his first elk tag a pretty cherry one at that so I'm sure I'm a bit bias.
 
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