Climate Change

Hem said:
Ha...actually left the pullout freezer drawer open a crack one day and got home just after my wife did. Steam exiting her ears.😂
Global warming thawed that puppy out entirely.
But this morning's comments actually ARE a reflection of our society in a deeper context. FYI
Some might get it, most probably not.
Not gonna elaborate.🤮
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I couldn't get past the part where you spelled "you're " wrong
 
rwc101 said:
Only 84% of the park's glaciers have disappeared. Could they have been more wrong?
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I was gonna say, has anybody been there recently? The glaciers look a lot like small patches of snow now. I grew up outside the park and it has definitely changed in my lifetime. Humanity was not meant to rule this place forever, but rather to think we did for a short time.
 
Sytes said:
Mind quoting your source re: 84% of the glaciers in GNP have disappeared? ;)
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Status of Glaciers in Glacier National Park | U.S. Geological Survey

Glaciers on the Glacier National Park (GNP) landscape have ecological value as a source of cold meltwater in the otherwise dry late summer months, and aesthetic value as the park’s namesake features. USGS scientists have studied these glaciers since the late 1800s, building a body of research...
www.usgs.gov www.usgs.gov

This doesn't contain that exact percentage, and I'm not sure where they found it. The link does talk about the decline in glaciers, specifically those over 25 acres (there are only 26 remaining). Check out the Repeat Photography Project, which began comparative photography studies in Glacier in 1996, retaking iconic park photographs to illustrate the vast changes of some of our last glaciers.
 
RidgeRoamingRichard said:
I was gonna say, has anybody been there recently? The glaciers look a lot like small patches of snow now. I grew up outside the park and it has definitely changed in my lifetime. Humanity was not meant to rule this place forever, but rather to think we did for a short time.
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Grinnell noted the shrinking of the glaciers back in the 1800's when he visited the "Walled in Lakes" country. Back before automobiles were around. Humanity was not responsible that. A lot of this climate change debate is based on self loathing.
 
BigHornRam said:
Grinnell noted the shrinking of the glaciers back in the 1800's when he visited the "Walled in Lakes" country. Back before automobiles were around. Humanity was not responsible that. A lot of this climate change debate is based on self loathing.
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Or you know...science. I studied Environmental Studies at a Montana High School and a conservative catholic college in Montana, and even there, they acknowledge that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. If you look at the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere over time, there is a dramatic spike that corresponds with the industrial revolution (this issue is being caused by much more than just automobiles). Correlation is not causation, of course, but when you look at the acceleration of temperature rise, sea-level change, ozone depletion, increased insulation factor of our atmosphere, oceanic temperature change, etc., the picture becomes pretty darn clear. We have dramatically altered the earth's carbon cycle, pulling billions of gallons of oil out of the earth's crust and releasing its waste products into the air (This incredible amount of potential energy would've remained just that for millions of years had we not dug it up). As a hunter, you have undoubtedly witnessed the intricate balance of earth's cycles. You should know how drastically we alter our environment when we interfere so greatly with these cycles. To be so self-assured of humanity's innocence does not mean you're a humanist, it means hubris has blinded you.

This is obviously something I'm passionate about and I hope that passion hasn't angered anyone. I'm not trying to start a fight or to get you to change your lifestyle. On the contrary, I think you should enjoy life however you see fit. We have passed the deadlines to cut carbon emissions. Our climate is going to change and short of making a drastic change in lifestyle across the entire world, we will not save ourselves nor even buy more time here. Earth, on the other hand, will be fine. New species will emerge, better equipped for a more severe climate, and I hope another sentient species develops to hunt them!

Sorry for the rant. Let's get back to what is important in life, getting lost in the woods.

P.S. It is not the fact that earth cools and warms over time that matters. Everybody knows about the hot-ass origins of earth as well as the last ice age. The issue is the rate at which the change is occurring. In a way, climate change is completely natural, we have just eroded the natural barriers to that change; our insulation is shrinking. So you are all right when you say this has happened before, it will happen again. The issue is that this change usually takes place on a geological timeframe, and we are seeing change on a human timeframe. Organic life cannot adapt fast enough to cope with the changes.
 
Last edited:
Scientists have stated this is not Glacier National Park's first rodeo. I guess we can blame it on prehistoric cows farting too much for the last time the glaciers disappeared...
 
RidgeRoamingRichard said:
Or you know...science. I studied Environmental Studies at a Montana High School and a conservative catholic college in Montana, and even there, they acknowledge that climate change is a man-made phenomenon. If you look at the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere over time, there is a dramatic spike that corresponds with the industrial revolution (this issue is being caused by much more than just automobiles). Correlation is not causation, of course, but when you look at the acceleration of temperature rise, sea-level change, ozone depletion, increased insulation factor of our atmosphere, oceanic temperature change, etc., the picture becomes pretty darn clear. We have dramatically altered the earth's carbon cycle, pulling billions of gallons of oil out of the earth's crust and releasing its waste products into the air (This incredible amount of potential energy would've remained just that for millions of years had we not dug it up). As a hunter, you have undoubtedly witnessed the intricate balance of earth's cycles. You should know how drastically we alter our environment when we interfere so greatly with these cycles. To be so self-assured of humanity's innocence does not mean you're a humanist, it means hubris has blinded you.

This is obviously something I'm passionate about and I hope that passion hasn't angered anyone. I'm not trying to start a fight or to get you to change your lifestyle. On the contrary, I think you should enjoy life however you see fit. We have passed the deadlines to cut carbon emissions. Our climate is going to change and short of making a drastic change in lifestyle across the entire world, we will not save ourselves nor even buy more time here. Earth, on the other hand, will be fine. New species will emerge, better equipped for a more severe climate, and I hope another sentient species develops to hunt them!

Sorry for the rant. Let's get back to what is important in life, getting lost in the woods.

P.S. It is not the fact that earth cools and warms over time that matters. Everybody knows about the hot-ass origins of earth as well as the last ice age. The issue is the rate at which the change is occurring. In a way, climate change is completely natural, we have just eroded the natural barriers to that change; our insulation is shrinking. So you are all right when you say this has happened before, it will happen again. The issue is that this change usually takes place on a geological timeframe, and we are seeing change on a human timeframe. Organic life cannot adapt fast enough to cope with the changes.
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There it is. It's done. It's over. No turning back. We screwed up. The science has spoken. I guess we don't need to waste our time studying this anymore.
 
RidgeRoamingRichard said:
P.S. It is not the fact that earth cools and warms over time that matters. Everybody knows about the hot-ass origins of earth as well as the last ice age. The issue is the rate at which the change is occurring. In a way, climate change is completely natural, we have just eroded the natural barriers to that change; our insulation is shrinking. So you are all right when you say this has happened before, it will happen again. The issue is that this change usually takes place on a geological timeframe, and we are seeing change on a human timeframe. Organic life cannot adapt fast enough to cope with the changes.
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For me, this is an eye opening way to put it. Thank you RRR
 
kansasdad said:
For me, this is an eye opening way to put it. Thank you RRR
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It is not just the pace of change, and I might argue that much of life can keep up with that (not a popular position, admittedly), but that there are 8ish BILLION people living on this planet at the moment and that impacts the degree of flexibility that life has to adjust. Last time it was "warmish" things were a whole bunch different (and lots of species still couldn't adjust).

Ponder this ("Wild Animals = all terrestrial mammalian wildlife):

land_mammals[1].png
 
BrentD said:
It is not just the pace of change, and I might argue that much of life can keep up with that (not a popular position, admittedly), but that there are 8ish BILLION people living on this planet at the moment and that impacts the degree of flexibility that life has to adjust. Last time it was "warmish" things were a whole bunch different (and lots of species still couldn't adjust).

Ponder this ("Wild Animals = all terrestrial mammalian wildlife):
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Ponder this, there are more men in the US named William than there are elk.
 
Bluebird clear sky and the air was still. Windmills had not moved in days. The layers of snow on wind generator blades and the solar panels proved effective in reflecting climate change back to where it comes from.

solar 1.jpg
solar .jpg

I noticed the land clearing, some say deforestation, a few years ago. Trees were piled up by diesel fueled machinery and set ablaze, burning for weeks, to make way, for renewable energy. Solar.

I have drove by this site a number of times and it stirs something in me.

The entrepreneur's are taking action to reduce carbon, and maybe make a buck. I wish them success. In press releases they state, "If we want to expand here, we need to cut down about a million cottonwood trees." I'd add spruce, birch, undergrowth then burn it all. "There's room for a hundred farms like this and it only would make a tiny dent in the power we consume"

Fortunately, as the wind did not blow, and snow covered solar panels reflected climate change back to where it comes from. "Fossil fuel" the earths natural energy supply, remain constant, providing heat to Alaskan homes and business.
 
Yeah, we've seen that going up to our cabin. Now someone in a fuel burning vehicle has to drive out there and manually clean those panels off. Or just wait for spring. Oops, I mean break-up!
 
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