BLM, Forest Service and Nevada Ranchers

[big28hunter]

I agree he should have to pay his grazing fees! However, it sure would be nice if they (DC IDIOTS) put this much effort into illegals crossing our border!

 

[drahthaar]

So which is it? Toads or grazing fees? I don't believe pretty much anything the media spews. I cant believe the cattle are hurting the toads, as the cattle have been there for 130 years, and the toads are still there, and I can't believe he would just quit paying these fees his family has paid since what, 1934, when they were enacted?

It sounds like stupidity all the way around!! Maybe the latest story of the Chinese wind farms planned for the area is true! I mean, that is as stupid as I have heard. The most ludacris story must be true.

I hope nobody loses their life over this.

 

[Sytes]

I've only just read the article on Fox News. It sounds like the agency has crossed their Ts and dotted the I's. It reads that at least one, possibly two, decisions were issued ordering the cattle off. These were apparently upheld by at least two different judges. I'm not sure if the tortoise or non payment was the cause for issuing the decision, but regardless the permittee lost in court. The cows have to come off. He cannot pay the county as they do not have the authority to issue grazing permits for that land.

Impoundment is absolutely the last resort. The solicitor's are very cautious to suggest taking that action for the threat of TORT claims. Therefore, these types of actions recieve huge amounts of scrutiny from both sides and very likely wouldn't be taking place without all the ducks in their proper rows.

Regarding the issue of where the property lines are, which was not mentioned in the article I read, but was above. That may or may not matter. If the private land is in Exchange of Use (through a signed agreement), the landowner has abdicated grazing management for that land to the federal agency and therefore the land is managed in common with the federal lands within that grazing allotment. This is common on allotments with checkerboard ownership. The lands can be withdrawn from that agreement easily by the landowner. However, if the lands are not fenced or animals placed on that land are allowed to wander on to federal lands they are considered in tresspass.

Thanks.

 

[ringer]

I heard it was STATE land and the feds came in and made the tortoise the issue. They then moved a bunch to a preserve and ended up killing them because they could not budget to take care of the area. Either way the feds are becoming the US arm of the Third Reich. They let Sharpton steal $2 million in tax fraud yet now are going after a daughter for a 37 year old SS overpayment for her parents. We saw armed USFS officers here locking down every boat ramp and campground during the federal shutdown. I never saw one of those in the last 50 years here. Now they have 200 armed swat style nazis to throw against a handful of ranchers? I hope they take a stand and the blood flows. Screw your federal laws.

 

[smarandr]

I heard it was STATE land and the feds came in and made the tortoise the issue.

"I heard" is always a reliable source

They then moved a bunch to a preserve and ended up killing them because they could not budget to take care of the area.

This tends to happen when you're shorted over a million dollars in fees.

Either way the feds are becoming the US arm of the Third Reich.

A little early isn't it to be invoking Goodwin's Law isn't it?

They let Sharpton steal $2 million in tax fraud yet now are going after a daughter for a 37 year old SS overpayment for her parents.

We saw armed USFS officers here locking down every boat ramp and campground during the federal shutdown. I never saw one of those in the last 50 years here.

Where was this? Things were open in my neck of the woods.

Now they have 200 armed swat style nazis to throw against a handful of ranchers? I hope they take a stand and the blood flows. Screw your federal laws.

Sounds like you need to pick up a rifle and get yourself down to Nevada so you can scalp a few of these jack booted thugs.

 

[tjones]

I hope they take a stand and the blood flows. Screw your federal laws.

Really? Wow.

 

[Big Fin]

I heard it was STATE land and the feds came in and made the tortoise the issue.

It was not STATE land. You "heard" wrong. It was at one time Paiute Indian lands. Before the Paiute, it was probably lands occupied by multitudes of different tribes.

I would be interested in seeing the chain of title that ever had it in the hands of the State of Nevada. I suspect such does not exist. And when I search the Clark County, Nevada property ownership records, none come up for Cliven Bundy. Wonder where the chain of title is that supposedly puts these lands in his hands at some time.

I laugh at how everyone wants to be mad at "The Feds." "The Feds" are people who are under control and direction of the leaders we elect and hired to operate agencies according to the laws Congress has passed, in this case, the two pertinent laws being The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 and the Endangered Species Act (passed in 1973).

If someone doesn't like "The Feds," they probably ought to look at who they are voting for in Congress. Only Congress can pass laws that will change "The Feds."

News for Mr. Bundy and his supporters. Those laws were passed long before this guy decided he would no longer pay his grazing lease payments.

I know some here are very well versed in grazing permits. I complete them often, on behalf of our ranch clients. I am finalizing one this month. Everyone should read those, the terms under which you agree, the grazing privileges that are conveyed to you, etc. But, such facts would interrupt people's opinions.

Carry on ......

 

[Sytes]

Hannity is the new extreme"Beck" for Fox. Never thought Kool Aid could be so artificially enhanced until I watched him serve it to his lapping minions...

 

[shoots-straight]

I heard it was STATE land and the feds came in and made the tortoise the issue. They then moved a bunch to a preserve and ended up killing them because they could not budget to take care of the area. Either way the feds are becoming the US arm of the Third Reich. They let Sharpton steal $2 million in tax fraud yet now are going after a daughter for a 37 year old SS overpayment for her parents. We saw armed USFS officers here locking down every boat ramp and campground during the federal shutdown. I never saw one of those in the last 50 years here. Now they have 200 armed swat style nazis to throw against a handful of ranchers? I hope they take a stand and the blood flows. Screw your federal laws.

You've been getting all your information right off the internet. The real story behind the tortoise preserve was the money was pulled, there was something like 1400 tortoises in care there. A couple hundred had come from homes as pets. They were the ones the were killed. The remaining numbers of wild Tortoises were released.

"The Feds" is you! You and the minions on the war path are "The Feds" just not smart enough to know it.

Federal Laws are those like Murder, rape, kidnapping, extortion, etc. I guess screw all those damn laws and let anarchy rein.

 

[BuzzH]

This Bundy situation clarifies one thing for sure, that its beyond unbelieveable how little understanding there is of public lands, federal regulations, BLM, States Rights, etc.

Its also pretty apparent that those with the loudest mouths in support of Bundy arent even from the West.

Bottom line is that Cliven Bundy has trespassed his cattle on BLM (yeah Ringer, try opening an ownership map before you pop off again), for decades without paying. He and his "family" have never had ownership of the BLM land some are claiming the Government "took" from him. He used the legal system and got his ass handed to him and is now crying because the BLM has said, "enough is enough". The BLM and the courts have given this old asshat numerous opportunities to get it right, yet he's refused...only one person to blame for that.

He's a common thief, a liar, a welfare queen, and the biggest crybaby in Nevada. I'd take his cattle and throw his ass in the crowbar hotel.

 

[DWarcher]

Bundy's daughter's statement:

I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repaires and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they’re own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the indangered species card. You’ve already heard about the desert tortis. Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America. Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him. Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even exsisted. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Aucion and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks

 

[brymoore]

He's a common thief, a liar, a welfare queen, and the biggest crybaby in Nevada. I'd take his cattle and throw his ass in the crowbar hotel.

I'd shoot his cattle from a helicopter.

 

[tjones]

Are you willing to risk the flow of your blood ringer or are you hoping for it to flow from others?

 

[noharleyyet]

I'd shoot his cattle from a helicopter.

...sure you would.

A Nevada cattle rancher appears to have won his week-long battle with the federal government over a controversial cattle roundup that had led to the arrest of several protesters.

Cliven Bundy went head to head with the Bureau of Land Management over the removal of hundreds of his cattle from federal land, where the government said they were grazing illegally.

Bundy claims his herd of roughly 900 cattle have grazed on the land along the riverbed near Bunkerville, 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, since 1870 and threatened a "range war" against the BLM on the Bundy Ranch website after one of his sons was arrested while protesting the removal of the cattle.

"I have no contract with the United States government," Bundy said. "I was paying grazing fees for management and that's what BLM was supposed to be, land managers and they were managing my ranch out of business, so I refused to pay."

The federal government had countered that Bundy "owes the American people in excess of $1 million " in unpaid grazing fees and "refuses to abide by the law of land, despite many opportunities over the last 20 years to do so."

However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

"Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

"We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.

The roundup began April 5, following lengthy court proceedings dating back to 1993, federal officials said. Federal officers began impounding the first lot of cows last weekend, and Bundy responded by inviting supporters onto his land to protest the action.

"It's not about cows, it's about freedom," Utah resident Yonna Winget told ABC News affiliate KTNV in Las Vegas, Nevada.

"People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power," Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy told ABC News.

By Sunday, April 6, one of Bundy's sons, Dave Bundy, was taken into custody for refusing to disperse and resisting arrest, while hundreds of other protesters, some venturing from interstate, gathered along the road few miles from Bundy's property in solidarity. Dave Bundy was later released.

A spokesman for the Bundy encampment told ABC News roughly 300 protesters had assembled for the protest, while a BLM representative estimated there were around 100 people.

"We want a peaceful protest, but we also want our voices heard," said Cliven Bundy's sister, Chrisie Marshall Bundy.

But clashes between demonstrators and authorities took a violent turn on Wednesday, with cell phone video showing some being tasered at the site, including Bundy's son, Ammon Bundy. Two other protesters were detained, cited and later released on Thursday, according to the BLM.

As the movement grew by the day, and demonstrators rallied together, bonding by campfires at night, local protest leaders warned people not to wear camouflage and keep their weapons inside their vehicles.

Both sides said the issue is one of fairness, with the federal government maintaining that thousands of other cattle ranchers are abiding by the law by paying their annual grazing fees, while Bundy's family and supporters say the government's actions are threatening ranchers' freedoms.

"It's about the freedom of America," said another of Bundy's sisters, Margaret Houston. "We have to stand up and fight."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

 

[Zach]

I don't know who's right or wrong, but do find it interesting so many are ready to side with the federal government.

 

[mtmiller]

I don't know who's right or wrong, but do find it interesting so many are ready to side with the federal government.

Zach, could you please let us all know why we should side with Mr. Bundy. Please be specific.

 

[drahthaar]

Do you pay your bills Zach? Do you pay taxes? If you do, then you should be pissed too.

This shows me that all the other ranchers grazing public land don't have to pay their fees now. Why should they?

By this logic, every logger I know should go fire up their dozers and skidders and just go carve timber off the landscape. All they have to do is say they don't recognize the land as federal, and get after it.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't know who's right or wrong, but do find it interesting so many are ready to side with the federal government.

Really?

Seems the courts had no problems sorting out who was right and who was wrong.

Try studying the taylor grazing act...and try to understand how every other BLM leasee has no trouble understanding how the law regarding grazing rights work. They pay their fees, they work with the BLM, and have no problems.

You cant figure out that its against the law to use public lands for free for 20 years and never pay your grazing fees? Yeah, its reallll complicated.

Bundy is a dead beat and a thief, who's cheated the taxpayers out of 1.1 million in grazing fees.

Its funny, when I've worked down there I see signs all over the BLM offering "rewards" for any information leading to the arrest of anyone who steals livestock.

Its not OK to steal Bundy's cattle...but its perfectly fine for him to steal the publics resources to line his pockets.

I think the sun, and living in Bunkerville (pun there) has fried that dumb old bastards brain...

 

[Straight Arrow]

Just listen to Bundy's rhetoric and think about what he is asserting. In an attempt to justify NOT PAYING grazing fees, he attempts to explain that the land is not subject to laws, rules, regulations and authority of the BLM. He wants you to believe (much as other radicals who want state control of USFS, BLM and other federally managed public lands) that his and others' Constitutional rights are being violated. Furthermore, he argues that violating his legal requirements for an excessive length of time somehow supports his position. It is a large, convoluted red herring to excuse his ignoring of legal judgments and financial obligations to pay the relatively low fees paid by countless other responsible ranchers across the nation.

It is reminiscent of the radical tax protesters who claim that no federal authority exists for the income tax system and for the IRS, rather that their Constitutional rights are being violated by having to contribute to the fiscal requirements to keep this nation operating.

 

[noharleyyet]

I think the sun, and living in Bunkerville (pun there) has fried that dumb old bastards brain...

...buzzkill? (pun there)