Bill with no sporting reps, three landowners on Commission one vote from passage

[Gevock]

Here's another bill to restructure the makeup of the Fish and Wildlife Commission, incorporating another bill that requires one commissioner per FWP region, but also requiring that four of the seven be landowners:

LAWS Detailed Bill Information Page

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I might amend the title from Landowners to Ranchers

 

[Gerald Martin]

Does my veggie garden count as ag production?

 

[Sytes]

I REALLY like the idea of one commissioner per Region, as mentioned in another thread though not sure the makeup needs such a heavy slant towards agricultural landowners within such a broad commissioner application.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Does my veggie garden count as ag production?

Also cat = fur bearing animal, some people just give them away.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Also cat = fur bearing animal, some people just give them away.

Or food production....

 

[VikingsGuy]

Does my veggie garden count as ag production?

What about those of us who just produce fertilizer ? Asking for a friend.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I REALLY like the idea of one commissioner per Region, as mentioned in another thread though not sure the makeup needs such a heavy slant towards agricultural landowners within such a broad commissioner application.

Sytes, I think we both agree wildlife is held in trust by the state for it's citizens. The job of the commission is to manage this public trust, for ALL Montanans.

To that end I wondered how many people are we talking about? Region 6 seems the most rural.
I pulled the parcel data for each county, Dataset
Clipped out lands not in the region
Removed absentee landowners based on address
Dissolved on landowner + address

People = Unique Entities, a landowner could have multiple LLCs and be double counted.

12,294 people who own any amount of land
4,410 people who own more than 40 acres
3,828 people who own more than 160 acres
2,639 people who own more than 640
1,159 people who own more than 2560

^ Pick your level for Landowner engaged in agriculture.

1.069 million People in Montana
~ 69,812 people in Region 6 (wikipedia)

If you did it proportionally each seat would be representing 152,714 people or 1/7 the population.

I'm sure the rest of the regions are even more pronounced. I don't think it's at all hyperbolic to say 4 out of 7 seats would be controlled by 1% of the population of the state.

Enjoy your landed aristocracy Montana.

 

[bigsky2]

This probably won't help McKean's chances any.

 

[Sytes]

Need to take your data and Bret's mapping and combine the two.

Commission sets fish and wildlife regulations, approves property acquisitions, and approves certain rules and activities of the Department as provided by statute.

I am not a proponent of 5 districts to cover the 7 regions. IMO, I would prefer our region's wildlife issues represented by the same commissioner and not overlapped. There is a purpose for the general regional zoning and the general hunt districts within each region.

We agree about wildlife, as would be generally expected. Content about the #'s is pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

We agree about wildlife, as would be generally expected. Content about the #'s is pretty amazing. Thanks for sharing.

I don't have enough info on the district shapes to comment.

Though you and or others might find it interesting, I ran the analysis for the full state.

16,459 unique owners with over 40 acres.

Now I noticed Turner Enterprises only came up with 5078 acres and I couldn't find lots of other big names. Obviously thats because they are using a bunch of different LLCs to hold their land. Most of these folks are NR anyway. Also noticed I was pulling in small state of Montana and FWP parcels that have weird names and address.

Bottom line the real number is probably around 10,000 or less folks in the state that would qualify.

Take that divide it by 4, then factor in how many people actually want the job, this law really seems directed in making sure specific individuals end up on the commission and that other individuals are specifically disqualified.

I think this law should be call the 1% rule.

 

[TheTone]

Would all those divisions by LLC, trust, etc then be eligible for each group to receive the landowner tags or would the state be smart enough to know they all belong to the same person/ group behind the scenes?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Would all those divisions by LLC, trust, etc then be eligible for each group to receive the landowner tags or would the state be smart enough to know they all belong to the same person/ group behind the scenes?

Never underestimate the intelligence of the state.....

 

[Nameless Range]

Would all those divisions by LLC, trust, etc then be eligible for each group to receive the landowner tags or would the state be smart enough to know they all belong to the same person/ group behind the scenes?

Having at one point in my career been a part of creating the data that would be used to identify ownership, I can tell you that I think there would ample opportunity to circumvent this.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Having at one point in my career been a part of creating the data that would be used to identify ownership, I can tell you that it would not be difficult to circumvent this, and Montanans policing Montanans would be the only real way.

Maybe the Board of Outfitters will help with oversight. I've heard they're a bunch of junkyard dogs.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Would all those divisions by LLC, trust, etc then be eligible for each group to receive the landowner tags or would the state be smart enough to know they all belong to the same person/ group behind the scenes?

You could make each landowner have to have a unique landowner ID and give tags only to persons, not entities.

 

[Nameless Range]

Start throwing in things like joint ownership, undivided interest, etc, and you’ve got a real mess.


That’s really not the point though. This type of allocation of our public resource is unacceptable. Period

 

[antlerradar]

Sytes, I think we both agree wildlife is held in trust by the state for it's citizens. The job of the commission is to manage this public trust, for ALL Montanans.

To that end I wondered how many people are we talking about? Region 6 seems the most rural.
I pulled the parcel data for each county, Dataset
Clipped out lands not in the region
Removed absentee landowners based on address
Dissolved on landowner + address

People = Unique Entities, a landowner could have multiple LLCs and be double counted.

12,294 people who own any amount of land
4,410 people who own more than 40 acres
3,828 people who own more than 160 acres
2,639 people who own more than 640
1,159 people who own more than 2560

^ Pick your level for Landowner engaged in agriculture.

1.069 million People in Montana
~ 69,812 people in Region 6 (wikipedia)

If you did it proportionally each seat would be representing 152,714 people or 1/7 the population.

I'm sure the rest of the regions are even more pronounced. I don't think it's at all hyperbolic to say 4 out of 7 seats would be controlled by 1% of the population of the state.

Enjoy your landed aristocracy Montana.

If we were to assign the commissioners according to the amount of hunting pressure, Region 7 might get three.

 

[Walkalot]

Guessing corupt politics.

 

[Walkalot]

A qoute from an outfitter i know. I cleaned it up.

Its a huge joke.we dont lease land. Blank has permit in the blank. This yr all of it was cluster fuk out town clowns.sure the blank was same. Region 3 has become a joke. We did not see a buck that was euen tempting to the hunters. Any asshole from out of state can come to mt lease land haue hunting op. Even if there residence is n carolina. Our biologists get told what to . If they rock the boat do whats rite they get moved to two dot.. Montana outfitters guides associaton are a bunch of fuks that want public land trashed so game goes on there private leases sux the pandemic will keep sportsman from teaming or trying to meet with biologists. . Hb 417 wants to do away with all limited bull buck units. So fuct up. Moga is behind that. They wana lease private in the elkhorns and breaks and be able to get all there rich clients elk tags. Gianforte put moga guys on his comitees