Bad news from Arizona

River_Rebel

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Jun 29, 2004
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Chandler, AZ
The Arizona draw results were to be posted today but thanks to an a$$hole outfitter from New Mexico, his lawyer (there should be a bounty on 'em) and an idiot US District Judge the draw has been postponed. The lawsuit filed in 2000 by the owner of United States Outfitters claimed that Arizona's 10 percent cap for out of state hunters for Kaibab Deer hunts and bull elk hunts is unconstitutional.

Here is a link to the AZGFD website for the story.

http://www.azgfd.com/artman/publish/article_121.shtml

Whether the legal opinion is right or not I just can't believe that they dropped the decision on us a day before the draw.

This is my first post - hopefully future posts will be a LOT more positive.
 

JohnSWA

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Nov 28, 2001
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Chandler, Az
Welcome aboard neighbor! Yeah, this blows big time! I wasn't really expecting to draw, but I thought it would be the usual skunk. Now I found out it was by a bunch of skunks!

I'm sure looking forward to my Idaho Elk and deer hunt.
 

AZ402

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Cottonwood,Arizona
Heres where things stand at this time: During executive session the comm was able to speak to Judge Bloomfields office and he agreed to hold a special hearing Monday,July 19 At 10:00 am AZ time to consider a temporary injuction. Then the commision will hold a public meeting Monday July 19 @noon in the Same building at the fairgrounds.

Also,the dept stated they will post the results for all other species not affected by this no later than July 20.
 

TheTone

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So why don't local sportsmen band together and get USO shut down? I never here anything good about Taulman's operation and heres just another example of him screwing over the common man by throwing money around. Is it a matter of him developing too much pull thats its too late to get rid of his business? He's opening a HUGE can of worms with these suits. I'd love to hunt Arizona or New Mexico some day and I realize that as a non-resident it will be hard to get a tag, but oh well, its like that everywhere.
 

elkrack6x6

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Why shouldn't we discriminate? Our AZ tax money contributes to GFD, does that USO MF'er contribute to anything besides his best interests? If you are out there Montoya, what the F' have you done besides take from a natural recourse? If you think you have contributed, it doesn't count to pay someone to go to an AZ Mule Deer or Rocky Mountain Elk meeting once in a while. Where are our elected officials? They need to back us and we need them to step up. Where are the people that have been here in AZ for most of, or all of our lives? We are the ones who are most affected and I feel terrible for all of us. This is just icing compared to all the public land we are losing is this state and the mass migration of people. F all the politicians who have managed to take OUR state and turn it in to what they have. Montoya should get what's coming to him hopefully, even if it's an ass whooping or a bullet from some mental case, and God only knows I would give a months salary to do it myself if it where legal. I wish I could get a piece of that F'er but he is probably in hiding. Do I sound bitter? I am, but not by choice. USO is scum and if I ever happen to meet anyone who belongs to, Montoya and ALL USO people, I hope you one day get what is coming to you. My quote of the day... "do it yourself or don't do it!" I hope that I have made some scense as I know that this has stirred my emotions past the point where I even know if I am a help in what I say. 623-205-3041 Montoya! I want a piece of your political ass. Go public little bitch! You have no place in AZ nor do your so called hunters or thier guides.
 

cjcj

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This is just plain rotten! Each state should control its own Game.[states right`s] Fucking Lawyers! I hope this asshole[ Montoya] and USO get what is coming to them. I have never heard anything but bad,bad shit about USO, And i will get Busy on the phones Monday calling. The Gov./state att.general/ and some congressmen.
 

Tom

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I hope they work it out quick, its amazing they can halt everything, that's not going to last, its not good for anybody or the animals.

What is the percentage in other states, is that the issue, the 10%?

Like, in our draws here, I think residents and non residents have the same chances. Their argument must be based on some federal law, otherwise, the state would rule.
 

elkrack6x6

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I would like apoligize. I think between a few JD and Cokes last nite, and the major frustrations surrounding this whole issue, I probably didn't represent myself in the best manner. While I still feel the same way, I probably could of said things a little differently. USO still sucks!
 

elkrack6x6

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I would like apoligize. I think between a few JD and Cokes last nite, and the major frustrations surrounding this whole issue, I probably didn't represent myself in the best manner. While I still feel the same way, I probably could of said things a little differently. USO still sucks!
 

SJ

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USO has the money to throw around too. They are one of the bigger outfitters in New Mexico. Don't understand why he is so involved with AZ.
 

cjcj

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Elkrack you don`t need to apoligize,[at least speaking for me] nothing wrong with pure emotion to tell how you feel! this is a "Hot" issue. when someone starts messing with a sport that you love and enjoy...well they will just have to deal with the shit that they stir! [I.M.O.] But I just heard some bad news from a close friend at AZ G&F, and he say`s that this thing could drag on until early september. he/I hope this information is wrong, but he was talking with some information people at G&F and thats what they said so far [worst case] sept. for the deer/elk draw.
 

elkrack6x6

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[/QUOTE] At some point if you want to hunt trophy animals you will have to go through USO. Sad, but true. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I would rather fill my tags with rag horns the rest of my life, or even not fill them at at all, then have anything to do with this outfit. Here in AZ and probably elsewhere as well, these guys are known (have been known) for extremely questionable tactics in not only in the attempt to secure public hunting areas to themselves by roping off and restricting access by blocking roads, but the actuall harvesting of the animal has been talked about as being not by legal means. I have no personal experience with this, but if I ever did I would make every attempt to get them arrested and spread that word promptly. There is much talk here in AZ about what can be done by us as consumers to possibaly create enough impact to have an effect on these guys, and I for one will at least try and do what I can to help. They have alot of big sponsors and I actually use some of the products that are listed, but this has in my opinion crossed a line that may be hard to recover from, as long as we stick together in our efforts. These people share nothing in the spiritual effect that we as true sportsman recieve from hunting bulls and bucks. They are more concerned with thier bottom line then anything and in my opinion, more concerend with that then the future of hunting as we all know and love. There is a huge discussion on this whole thing with a list of companies and contacts on www.azod.com
 

danr55

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Look guys, there are several things we can do. We can start by boycotting the supporters of USO like Realtree Outdoors. Don't buy products from anyone associated with USO. Write the company and tell them why you're not buying from them. Don't buy anything with the Realtree trademark. If we hurt them, then they will quit supporting USO. I'm not sure who all supports USO, but I've seen several Realtree Adventures where USO is featured.

We can push the AZGF to require out of state hunters to hire a guide and only license AZ residents as Guides/Outfitters. Push for an increase in out of state license fees. I don't have anything against out of state hunters, but this Taulman character pisses me off. It's too bad that everyone has to suffer because he's got his hand in everyone's pocket.

Some of the other ideas we came up with is requiring out of state hunters to post the complete fee by mail and not allow the internet applications, require that out of state hunters apply in person and not permit outfitters to apply for thier tags.

:cool:
 

A-con

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Right now, most "out of state hunters" agree that this sucks, but if Arizona residents keep talking about requiring guides and raising fees, your going to turn it into a pissing contest.
Non rersident hunters arn't your problem, and you don't want to start a war with everyvody who applys for Az. tags (do you ?).
Next year, you could have 250,000 law suites.

Personly I think USO sucks, but the attitude of some Arizona resident hunters isn't far behind.
 

danr55

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A-Con, I have no bitch with non resident hunter coming to Arizona. I believe that AZ offers the best chance for a trophy animal of any state in the west. I do believe that since the AZ residents pay the toll for AZGF, and we are the ones who sacrifice with the lottery that affords the trophy opportunity that everyone is so interested in, that we deserve some sort of preference in that lottery. The only way to preserve that slight advantage is by limiting the number of out of state hunters who have the opportunity to hunt AZ. Certainly the AZGF is not going to risk 30 years of game management expertise by raising the numbers of tags available.

Besides, it is evident that as soon as this ruling is pushed down our throats, there will be a next effort to provide land owner tags which outfitters can then buy. That will further limit the number of tags available to ME. So to answer your question rather bluntly, I don't give a damn about out of state hunters at this point. I believe that my attitude is representitive of most AZ resident hunters. At the rate things are going, we may soon be FORMER AZ RESIDENT HUNTERS.

If the folks who are interested in hunting AZ are really interested in hunting and they don't have the $3K or $4K that the tags will cost via USO.. then they will raise the same issues about this ruling that we in AZ are raising. I hold little hope for any such equity, however.

:cool:
 

cjcj

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Well i Admit i have an "attitude" about out of state hunting. I feel that "ALL" resident hunters should get tags first, and if there are any left over tags [javelina] then they can be sold to out of state hunters.If montana/colorado/utah/etc. want to do the same fine with me! why allow someone to come in your backyard garden and pick out your "prize" pumpkin, then leave you [resident] to tend and nurture the garden? I am just speaking for me! Am i selfish? yes i am! This i how i feel [just me] I say to hell with outsiders who sneak in the back door to reap the harvest.
 

BuzzH

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Danr,

Theres a problem with not "caring" about out of state hunters.

For starters they fund a good portion, in fact a disproportion of your game and fish.

Most NR's have no problem paying higher fees, in fact I do it all the time, and gladly. I view hunting as a NR, a gift from the resident hunters, and I'll return the favor with having to pay more. I also welcome NR into my home state, I appreciate their generousity in helping to fund our wildlife management.

However, I dont think its unreasonable for the NR hunters to have a chance at drawing a tag or two, and an equal opportunity to harvest one. I had no problem with the way the AZ draw has been done, and I support keeping it "as is", or "as was".

Also, many NR hunters are backing the resident hunters in this case, and my letter to the AZGF, and the sponsors of USO carry as much weight as yours....you may want to think about that. Dont piss on your allies.

Like A-con said, the NR hunter is not the bad guy here.

Another thing thats really blaring in this case is everyones GREED.

You harp on Taulman for being a greedy bastard, then say "I want my tag". Under CJ's theory, he wouldnt allow a single NR tag for anything. Thats exactly the same attitude that USO has, ME, ME, ME.
 

Ithaca 37

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Dan, "We can push the AZGF to require out of state hunters to hire a guide..."

Are you crazy? What do you think it would be like if all states started doing that?

How about some of you AZ guys doing a little research and showing us what portion of your AZGF revenues come from non residents?
 
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