AZ Non-Res early bull %

[AZ402]

Here is a little more info on the past draw. Hope we can raise enough stink as residents to our AZGFD to keep the paper apps or money up front on the computer.

Early bull elk hunts, 24% of tha tags to non-res.



3001 Unit 1, 40 tags non-residents got 23% of those tags

3002 Units 3A-3C, 25 tags, non-residents got 44% of those tags.

3003 Unit 3B, 30 tags, non-residents got 20% of those tags.

3004 Unit 4B, 40 tags, non-residents got 0% of the tags.

3005 Unit 6B, 25 tags, non-residents got 8% of those tags.

3006 Unit 10, 50 tags, non-residents got 32% of those tags.

3007 Unit 22N, 30 tags, non-residents got 27$ percent of those tags.

3008 Unit 22S, 30 tags, non-residents got 20% of those tags.

3009 Unit 23N, 20 tags, non-residents got 40% of those tags

 

[bowhuntinmaniac]

Stan, what did unit 9 have? I know 2 NR that drew 9 with 0 points. They applied together and this was their first year.

 

[AZ402]

Not sure, I don't have the archery stats yet. I'm sure it was 30+% though. If I get them I'll post it........

 

[jersey john]

AZ non res. early bull draw

3a/3c is what I just drew an early bull elk tag for. where to go from here??
any hot areas , has anyone hunted here? WHere is a goog spot to stay, Show Low? Not many non res. hunters! I drew with 7 points , thought I 'd have a longer wait. not complaining. I'm ready to go today...any pointers??

 

[danr55]

Jersey, Welcome to Hunttalk.. Some of the best hunting is south of Pinetop along the reservation line. Some of the big bulls from the res cross over looking for cows. You might also think about the flats north of Greens Peak. There are miles of cedar flats out there. A lot of spot and stalk.
Good Luck.

 

[james_wvu]

Its About Time, GO NON-RES!!!!!

It's about time a non-resident drew a tag in AZ. AZ Game and Fish has been robbing us for years, not permitting us to draw more than 10 % of the tags (which means non-res didnt always draw at least 10%). Not to mention, charging us 5 times the resident tag rates. AZGF forces us to buy a stinkin' general license even if we don't draw in order to get our points. And before anyone starts whining with "we live in AZ, we pay taxes in AZ," that doesn't hold much water. The most sought after tags are are on federal land, which means an AZ resident has no more right to it than a resident of another state because federal land is everyones. Further, non-res's are propping up AZ's game and fish, if you will, non-res's are subsidizing your $83 elk tag so you don't have to pay $405. Game and Fish doesn't run on goodwill. It runs on cold hard non-resid cash!!! If you notice, thats why AZGF keeps coming up with more creative ways to separate us from our cash without giving us anything in return, their way of trying to appease residents while still getting their pension plans. So with that said, its about time a non-resident drew a tag and at least you got a taste of how we've been treated all these years. This is a small victory for non-resid's. It won't last long because some politician will figure out a way to legally rob us again.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Now there's a jackass for ya.

 

[noharleyyet]

....take a breath junior, you're gonna love SI.

 

[JB Florida]

 

[james_wvu]

Yeah, I'm only a jackass because I know what I'm talking about and you have to arguments to make in response. I'm just sick of hearing these guys complain about what has been happening to non-resid across the country for years. I've heard more in one year from these resid guys than I've heard from all the non-resid's who have been getting screwed for years. AZ greed started this mess. If they had given up a more reasonable number of tags like say 20 % like most states, this thing would have never popped off. Now they are paying out the rear with 30-40% non-resid tags on some units (BTW, I want to see that stat, I find it hard to believe). AZGF greed gave that greedy outfitter fuel for the fire to take it to court. AZGF did it to themselves. What comes around goes around. Wildlife is a public resource to be shared by everyone so share the wealth gentlemen!!

 

[danr55]

Not only long winded, but living in a shell. James WVU welcome to Hunttalk. You're singing a familiar song. Sung by a lot of the hunters who want to hunt here, but don't want to be restricted to the draw here. Oh by the way, seems the Congress of the United States doesn't agree with you anymore.

As a point of information, if you figure the average from the data listed above, seems non-res drew almost 24% of the early bull tags, overall.

 

[james_wvu]

Thanks for the welcome to the forum. You say I'm longwinded but I say I'm thorough. Looks like we finally got someone that wants to debate. Great! You might be touting the congressinal approval of that bill as somehow it is confirms you are correct on this issue. The one thing you forgot to mention is that is was porkbarreled, attached as a rider, to the military defense bill meant for the troops in Iraq. Meaning, in order for a congressman to vote against the hunting portion, he would have to vote against the troops in Iraq. Come on, you think that would happen in a million year and I wouldnt want them to vote against the troops. All I can say is AZGF better be glad they got some king of the porkbarrel Senators to save them on this because they would have lost it again in the courts if they had appealed it. You proved nothing on that issue. If those statistics are correct and the average for non-resid draw for the early season is 24%, big deal. We finally got some tags. 20 % was all AZ should have given up before the lawsuit. The proc before the lawsuit limited the non-resid draw to only 10 % of the total tags. Go look it up. That is greed. I dont mind waiting in the draw but I want to wait in a fair draw. There was nothing fair to 10%, especially when AZGF took so much of my money to begin with. I guess you like affirmative action programs too, take from one give to another. Of the western states, AZ gave out the least out of non-resid tags while taking the most money. You can't dispute that. That is fact. Go read every state's proc. You still haven't made a reasonable argument as to why AZGF's lowtag/high cost for draw scheme was ok or even right, besides the fact that you are a resident gettiing the advantageous treatment at my expense.

 

[danr55]

Well James, the best argument I can give you is that Arizona has the fewest numbers of Elk tags of any of the Western states. When we had the fewest numbers of residents applying for those tags, it wasn't a big issue. The the population of Arizona growing by leaps and bounds, and still the fewest number of elk tags available, it makes sense to keep a large number of those tags for the folks who live here and pay taxes to support game and fish. Unlike some seem to believe, the out of state license and tags costs do not provide a large percentage of the support costs for AZGF.. If it did, it would be to thier advantage to increase the number of non res tags. Not decrease it. So why do you think they were so opposed to it and made such an effort to reverse the court decision if it cost them a substantial part of thier annual budget?

As to the argument that most of the hunting in AZ is on public land, that's a true statement. It does have a qualifier however. About 56% of the land in Arizona is tribal land. Not open to public hunting without a tribal permit. Another 12% of the land in Arizona is privately held. Another 14% of the land in Arizona is State owned land. The remaining portion is Federally owned, either national forest or national park or blm or military reserve. Of the land available and suitable for public hunting, about 35% of it is Federally owned. However, the only portion of any of this land that contains game are those portions that are subsidized for water by ranchers and other interests. So now you've thrown and entirely new mix into the game. If you or anyone else from out of state wanted to come hunt on that federally owned land that is not subsidized with water through one state agency or the other, I don't think that anyone in Arizona would mind, but those aren't the areas you want to hunt. Unless you are looking for a trophy Gila monster or Gecko or French lizard or rattle snake.

So while there are so many areas in the country with huge populations of game and natural water and public land, why do you want to hunt in Arizona? When those of us who live here only get to hunt once in a while in our home state, why shouldn't we get preference over those who choose to go out of state and hunt (meaning non-res who choose to come to Arizona and hunt)?

 

[AZ402]

Shocker that the douche-bag wvu doesn't have a real profile..........

 

[GFHunter]

Hey WVU, Have you checked your blood pressure lately.

 

[BOHNTR]

Okay boys, I've got some more popcorn....."ding-ding", round three let's go.

 

[james_wvu]

Wow, I got you AZ boys fired up on this one. I love a good debate. However, when someone stoops to name calling (douche, jackass) that only shows you have a simple mind and cannot string two words together to express your ideas. Or better yet, you have no ideas, just emotion. So please clean it up guys, Geez. I guess you want some profile info so you can try to call more douche names or bully. I bet you were the guy in school that was cool til he graduated and ended up working at the carwash living with his mama.
I never said AZ residents shouldn't get preference. You should. I think the 10% cap was too much preference. I would be happy with 20% even with them bleeding my wallet dry. The wallet bleeding will never change. I get the feelling that you guys are greedy enough to cut us out completely if you could but you can't, it would be unconstitutional and you don't want to pay the same amount for a tag as we do. You need our cash.
I have to tell you that your assertion that AZ has the least amount of elk tags of the western states in incorrect. Go look at the Nevada proc. They have near to none. So that one goes out the window. AZ looks like the land of milk and honey compared to NV. NV does the same tricks as AZ though.
Also, a break down of the land ownership in AZ proves pretty much nothing other than that the good hunting is on federal land (national forest, blm land). Nearly every unit orginially mentioned in this post is on public land so that gets us back to my point that AZ residents have the same ownership in federal land as do I. I'm surprised they haven't tried to kick the natives off the res for the elk hunting. Geez.
As for the state water subsidy dribble, that is a useless argument. You are just trying to stake more of a claim to federal land than nonresids. Thats the price you pay. You farm it, you water it. You are a US citizen like me, you have no more right to federal land because you live in the state. State lands, you do pay for so I would submit you have more right to them.
Further, if your taxes support the Game and Fish that would be a first for a western state. Every other western state solely relies on its budget from license sales making them self sufficient. Why do you think Utah has gotten so out of control selling off their tags? To make ends meet. The only reason AZGF is trying so hard for its residents is because of the pressure you guys are exerting on them. I don't have a say because i dont vote for your representatives. Trust me,they would rather take my $405 over your $80. Since they can't do that, they make up all these other rules like buying a general license, etc. to get my money. AZGF is between a rock and a hard place. They want my money but want to keep you guys quiet so their ulitimate goal now is to try and price as many of us (nonres) out of the market while snatching up as much money as they can from the suckers like me that keep paying it (paper applications, tag money up front).
I want to hunt in AZ for the same reason as everyone else in the country including you, AZ has the trophy elk. I do apply to other states besides AZ. But AZ seems to be the most smug when they rob me. Admit it or not, AZ treats non-resid's like the foster kid that noone wants but they have to deal with because they want the state welfare check.
I think the reason you guys are getting so angry is because you are terrified that you might have to apply to a state outside AZ to hunt. If your resident hunting is so limited, apply elsewhere like the rest of us. Stop crying about it. That would mean you lose your advantage and end up in the same boat as me, getting screwed out of money to benefit the states residents. Why don't you apply to other states? Right, you don't want to be on receiving end of the screw like the other nonresidents and then you would have to side with me.
Don't forget guys. You started this debate slamming nonresidents getting tags on the post. If you can't hack the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[AZ402]

If I could make it through one of your posts with out laughing, I'd stop the name calling. Since I can't, you get.........................

 

[noharleyyet]

..........

 

[Larry Landgren]

Another clueless assclown popping off at the mouth . I think someone needs to give him a written invatation to SI