OTC AZ Archery Units closed

Matt R

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Dec 26, 2015
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107
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Colorado
I’m really struggling with the sentiment that more hunters is bad and wanting the business model to implode; the whole goal in my mind is to draw more and more people into the outdoors whether it be hunting, birdwatching or whatever as these people will become advocates vocally and financially for those things they now know but haven’t known for generations in some cases. I understand the desire to preserve opportunity for oneself but I’m certain we’ll find that we will be in a much better place in ways that we can’t even imagine if we have a constituency for conservation that is 2, 4 or even 10X what it is today.
 

mulecreek

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Nov 16, 2010
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999
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Rock Springs, WY
I’m really struggling with the sentiment that more hunters is bad and wanting the business model to implode; the whole goal in my mind is to draw more and more people into the outdoors whether it be hunting, birdwatching or whatever as these people will become advocates vocally and financially for those things they now know but haven’t known for generations in some cases. I understand the desire to preserve opportunity for oneself but I’m certain we’ll find that we will be in a much better place in ways that we can’t even imagine if we have a constituency for conservation that is 2, 4 or even 10X what it is today.
That sure sounds nice but that fact remains that I have never been pleased to see even one other hunter in a place I want to hunt. And truth be told neither have you. That other hunter isn't doing anything wrong but I still don't want to see them there.

Any argument over ever increasing involvement in outdoor activities due to social media being a good thing or a bad thing is stupid. It is both! The increased involvement brings many positives but also many negatives. Ignoring those negatives is foolish. Just as ignoring those positives would be foolish.

This activity we love will not improve over time. The places where a person can just wander and explore will diminish over time. The places where a person can expect to hunt freely and undisturbed by others on a consistent basis will diminish over time. Whether it is from development, or social media is largely irrelevant to me. Gone is gone.
 

FlatlanderAZ

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Apr 13, 2020
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284
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Arizona
I can understand the frustration, as I too have experience that as I see more non-resident hunters come to Montana and partake in the Unlimited Sheep hunts each year. Yes, they're setting aside large amounts of time to hunt, but I've had to shift my perspective to acknowledge that I, as a resident, maintain the advantage of being here to scout throughout the year. Same goes for any species or hunt. Residents will more often then not have better odds of accessing private grounds, knowing of public land access that isn't well marked, and have the ability to spread their seasons out where one weather event doesn't "ruin" their entire hunt, unlike a non-resident there for 7 days. I think you'd find that resident success rate for those that actually get out and hunt (versus buy the tag in case they want to go for one day during the season) far exceeds non-resident success rate, even if the non-residents are visiting for a longer period.
I've also come to the realization that it is the non-resident $$$ that will most likely keep this hunting opportunity in existence for as long as I hope it to be, as each one of them is worth 10 resident hunters.

I would also say that @Big Fin has not sidestepped the fact his promotions played a part in increasing hunter interest in AZ. That's was exactly what he was hired to do, and from what I've seen, it appears he was successful. To quote him- "I'm proud of the work we have done. We accomplished what the ad agency asked us to do." He's simply pointing out that the changes were more than likely bound to happen due to drought and archery success rate increases.
I’m sorry, but there is no comparison between opportunity available to Montana residents and that available to Arizona residents.

I made my choices about where my residency occurs and I am fine with it. But I certainly don’t feel like some dude from MT who can get an OTC sheep tag along with a pocket full of other big game tags needs equal opportunity to the only otc deer hunting available to AZ residents. Coues deer are a far cry from an underutilized resource, if you don’t believe me check out the tag numbers.
 

YoungGun

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Feb 7, 2014
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Bozeman
I’m sorry, but there is no comparison between opportunity available to Montana residents and that available to Arizona residents.

I made my choices about where my residency occurs and I am fine with it. But I certainly don’t feel like some dude from MT who can get an OTC sheep tag along with a pocket full of other big game tags needs equal opportunity to the only otc deer hunting available to AZ residents. Coues deer are a far cry from an underutilized resource, if you don’t believe me check out the tag numbers.
Fair enough- which is why I pointed out that it's the case for any species or hunt, regardless of state. Residents will always be upset that non-resident hunters are becoming more common. As far as I'm concerned, there are two trains of thought- give them all, or the cast majority of them tags- regardless of take- and end up like Eastern Montana deer, or manage a set take based on numbers and not just dollars. I'd argue that as a non-resident who has hunted Arizona, your state game agency does one of the better jobs in the west at managing the public's resources.

Edit- I do feel like the Unlimited Sheep hunt is a fair enough comparison to your Coues Deer in that there is not a set quota on tags issued, resident or non-resident, and an increase in "take" limits the opportunities to hunt for those that choose to do so, just like AZ OTC Coues. Would I be upset if Montana paid someone to advertise the opportunity the ULs provide? Absolutely. Is it a fact of life that the number of tag holders each year will continue to increase? Absolutely.
 
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Bigjay73

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Denver
Hunting changed forever once google earth came out 15-20 years ago and technology has been influencing it greatly ever since. We can either pray for an EMP, or work around it.
 

YoungGun

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Bozeman
Hunting changed forever once google earth came out 15-20 years ago and technology has been influencing it greatly ever since. We can either pray for an EMP, or work around it.
Don't forget publications like Eastman's and Huntin' Fool that have given all of us a step by step guide to the numerous opportunities out there. Not that OL and F&S didn't show some of those, but never to the extent of giving someone a cost breakdown and roadmap to participating in these hunts. Throw in a hefty dose of social media, or even online forums like this, where anyone can view someone else's success or adventure, and it's easy to understand why hunting "tourism" is growing so rapidly and will more than likely continue to do so.
 

BlazerBeam

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Sep 2, 2020
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Montana
I'd like to see all western unlimited OTC hunting go away.
I'd like to see the selling of the hunting experience go away. I'd like the filming of hunts and monetization of those films go away. I'd like to see the opportunity to pay someone else to give you inside info or to train you on how to hunt elk to go away. I'd like to see podcasts where guys sit around with headphones on and act like they are experts just because they are able to hunt 100-150 days a year, and a bunch of midwest flatlanders worship them..... to go away. I'd like to see the constant pushing of gear and promo codes and "enters to win" to go away.
I don't want opportunity for residents or nonresidents to go away. I just want the constant smothering and advertising and spewing by these influencers to stop. As time goes on it will become more and more difficult for these guys to hide behind the façade of public land advocacy and conservation. Eventually people will hold them accountable for the prostitution of the hunting experience and our game....just wish it was sooner than later.
 

Pedropistola

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Jun 9, 2020
Messages
52
I'd like to see the selling of the hunting experience go away. I'd like the filming of hunts and monetization of those films go away. I'd like to see the opportunity to pay someone else to give you inside info or to train you on how to hunt elk to go away. I'd like to see podcasts where guys sit around with headphones on and act like they are experts just because they are able to hunt 100-150 days a year, and a bunch of midwest flatlanders worship them..... to go away. I'd like to see the constant pushing of gear and promo codes and "enters to win" to go away.
I don't want opportunity for residents or nonresidents to go away. I just want the constant smothering and advertising and spewing by these influencers to stop. As time goes on it will become more and more difficult for these guys to hide behind the façade of public land advocacy and conservation. Eventually people will hold them accountable for the prostitution of the hunting experience and our game....just wish it was sooner than later.
Thinking about it now, I realize it's happened in the east already. Back when I first got started hunting you couldn't find hardly anything but food plot info, stand setting strategies, and how to grow that deer of your dreams. Plus all the special gear you'd need to sit a stand and shoot 50 yards if you're lucky. Then all the small farms people hunted got leased, and guys had to pay up or else find somewhere else to hunt. Enter western hunting. No leases to worry about, plenty of opportunity (at the time), and all the marketing you'd ever want to keep your mind and wallet busy all year until your week long hunt. Still cheaper than paying for a lease back home maybe, plus you get to seem extreme on the instagram. The amount of conservation hasn't equalled the amount of commercialism in western hunting over the last 10 years. I'd like to see some influencers start hunting private honestly, since that's the future of conservation. Break down some walls for the everyday joe's and get some landowners to allow access. Draw attention to limited opportunity areas that can't be overrun. Can still teach tactics, conservation, get footage, fill tags, promote gear/sponsors, all without blowing up spots. Lots of people like the idea of DIY public land hunting and conservation, but I think when it comes down to it, most people are more worried about filling a tag and looking cool than where they shot it and the amount of conservation work it took to make that opportunity happen.

This doesn't address the fight to keep public lands in the public's hands and to help restore, conserve and preserve them. But seeing as how the interest in activities other than hunting have exploded, I'm not sure that rests solely on the shoulders of hunters as much anymore. And can still be advocated for even if hunting on private land.
 
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WapitiBob

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Oct 20, 2004
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Bend, Orygun
I'd like to see the selling of the hunting experience go away. I'd like the filming of hunts and monetization of those films go away. I'd like to see the opportunity to pay someone else to give you inside info or to train you on how to hunt elk to go away. I'd like to see podcasts where guys sit around with headphones on and act like they are experts just because they are able to hunt 100-150 days a year, and a bunch of midwest flatlanders worship them..... to go away. I'd like to see the constant pushing of gear and promo codes and "enters to win" to go away.
I don't want opportunity for residents or nonresidents to go away. I just want the constant smothering and advertising and spewing by these influencers to stop. As time goes on it will become more and more difficult for these guys to hide behind the façade of public land advocacy and conservation. Eventually people will hold them accountable for the prostitution of the hunting experience and our game....just wish it was sooner than later.

I wish people that use influencers forums to complain about influencers had the balls to name the influencers.
 

YoungGun

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Feb 7, 2014
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340
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Bozeman
I'd like to see all western unlimited OTC hunting go away.
I think there's certainly a balance to be found. I don't want 15,000 hunters hitting eastern Montana mule deer during the rut, but I don't want to see Thanksgiving family deer hunts and freezer filler opportunities going away either. I think some state agencies are better than others at trying to find that balance. Montana leans heavy on "opportunity" and Utah leans heavy on "trophy potential". I've honestly always thought AZGFD did one of the better jobs of striking as good of a balance as they could between these two trains of thought, but we wouldn't be having this discussion if we all felt that way currently.
 

Gr8bawana

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Jul 14, 2013
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Nevada
I'd like to see the selling of the hunting experience go away. I'd like the filming of hunts and monetization of those films go away. I'd like to see the opportunity to pay someone else to give you inside info or to train you on how to hunt elk to go away. I'd like to see podcasts where guys sit around with headphones on and act like they are experts just because they are able to hunt 100-150 days a year, and a bunch of midwest flatlanders worship them..... to go away. I'd like to see the constant pushing of gear and promo codes and "enters to win" to go away.
I don't want opportunity for residents or nonresidents to go away. I just want the constant smothering and advertising and spewing by these influencers to stop. As time goes on it will become more and more difficult for these guys to hide behind the façade of public land advocacy and conservation. Eventually people will hold them accountable for the prostitution of the hunting experience and our game....just wish it was sooner than later.
...then why are you here on a public land hunting forum?

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timmy

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Jan 29, 2016
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...then why are you here on a public land hunting forum?

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It’s an issue that directly effects public land DIY hunting and hunters so it is certainly relevant, especially feel bad for the residents that have to live it. It may be uncomfortable to talk about but it is certainly worthy of discussion.
 
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