Anybody Buying Yet? Where’s the Bottom?

[SAJ-99]

In YOUR mind you may think that everyone wants the same thing you do, but I hunt with and have hunted with several guys that have passed up 6 point bulls to shoot a cow. I saw it happen just last year.

You completely missed the point of the analogy. It is NOT application to every hunter or worker. IT is general comparison. That makes it ironic that you are using your anecdotal sample while accusing me of being overly general.

 

[Exhausted]

Right, you don't understand what I do...like I said, you're not the first and won't be the last.

I think I've been pretty clear that I don't particularly care what you do. It has almost no bearing on the statements I've made.

 

[BuzzH]

You completely missed the point of the analogy. It is NOT application to every worker,

I think it's just really hard for you to accept that today's workers aren't doing things the same way you did. That's a huge problem that managers better start paying attention to.

Doesn't mean they lack ambition, aren't valued, and aren't doing their jobs well, they don't want the same things you did for a variety of good reasons.

 

[Alpine01]

i think one of the overall points is being missed. that being, the capitalistic machine will do what it does, the large scale workforce dynamics will do what they do in response because they're a bunch of $*)Q!#@$ mindless animals, but in the backdrop of all that $*)Q!#@$ bullshitty chaos is me and many other younger folks like me, and we're gonna just do what we're gonna do, which is be happy where we're at and take what comes.

Good for you. That is 1000% your choice to make in life. But own that decision going forward (and the consequences that come from it in the future) and don't whine and complain that others have more than you, can afford a bigger house, nicer cars, more vacations, more toys, earlier retirement, etc. And don't start demanding that those that make the choice to better their financial opportunities and choose money over time owe you anything (tax the rich is the favorite mantra) because of your choices.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think it's just really hard for you to accept that today's workers aren't doing things the same way you did. That's a huge problem that managers better start paying attention to.

Doesn't mean they lack ambition, aren't valued, and aren't doing their jobs well, they don't want the same things you did for a variety of good reasons.

No, that is incorrect, although I agree with the conclusion on managers needing to realize this. I have no problem with those that chose different values for things. But I am losing sympathy for those that complain when there is a "shortage of xx workers" or when a company hires a more qualified person instead of "promoting within", or when they have to make three trips to the doctor because they never actually saw a real MD, just someone in a white coat. I think we are similar in that my baseline is zero empathy for corporations in general. They should be taxed extra every time they lay people off. However, something is broken on both sides of the equation. I have heard stories of those that most of would agree are very ambitious only define success as being rich. Wonder where examples of that came from.

 

[Exhausted]

Getting back on point. . .

 

[TOGIE]

Good for you. That is 1000% your choice to make in life. But own that decision going forward (and the consequences that come from it in the future) and don't whine and complain that others have more than you, can afford a bigger house, nicer cars, more vacations, more toys, earlier retirement, etc. And don't start demanding that those that make the choice to better their financial opportunities and choose money over time owe you anything (tax the rich is the favorite mantra) because of your choices.

of course i own it and i pity the losers that choose otherwise. you make a lot of assumptions about me; i'd focus your attention elsewhere

 

[BuzzH]

I think I've been pretty clear that I don't particularly care what you do. It has almost no bearing on the statements I've made.

If you're just an unmanned drone, that truly is the case. You're unsuccessfully trying to put your values on someone else and comparing your worth with somebody else as well. I know what I see with the current crop of people I work with, what they value and what they don't. It's not the same things as the people I started working with in 1987.

I embrace it instead of yelling at clouds.

 

[Alpine01]

of course i own it and i pity the losers that choose otherwise. you make a lot of assumptions about me; i'd focus your attention elsewhere

I make no assumptions about you. Just offering cautionary advice for future actions is all. Glad you have a clear vision of how you want to live your life.

 

[TOGIE]

I make no assumptions about you. Just offering cautionary advice for future actions is all. Glad you have a clear vision of how you want to live your life.

Everyone's vision is subject to change. Just like opinions, we all reseve the right to change em. Anybody at any stage of life who claims to have it all figured out is full of BS. Of course, you often know more later in life then you do earlier in life.

I'm not immune to money, but I know I love time more. You can't make more of it and if you plan on money buying you more of it's likely gonna be too late in many ways. So my decision making matrix puts higher weight and priority on time.

If my family was in a different situation maybe my priorities would have to shift away from how I would want them, but I would work hard to find the balance I want again. I recognize we're extraordinarily lucky in that regard. But having enough money is generally more about choices than making more of it.

I just sure hope my kids learn that money won't make you happy and that time well spent with people you love and doing things you love is far more fulfilling than just about anything else.

 

[Irrelevant]

Everyone runs a business, it's called their household. They bring in revenue, and pay for their purchases.

Some run their business better than others. You are showing your hand when you make an assertion like that. There are blue collar workers who handle their money better than another person making much more.

Maybe the best life lesson I learned early on, is to live on less than you make. You should always pay yourself first, every pay day. Over the course of decades it pays off handsomely.

During a performance review, a supervisor told me that the amount of overtime I was working, was not as much as the company would like. I said, our nest is empty, the mortgage is paid off, my wife works full time, if we can't make it on that, we need a finance consultant. Then I said, that I will work some amount of overtime, but my days off were valuable to me.

LOL, did you provide retirement to your kids, 401k match, did you pay your kids/wife for every chore done? Or did you count on your employees to take some amount of ownership (voluntary or pressured) to make the "business" run better? Did your business have to compete against other businesses? What service provided the income?

It's a nifty idea, but actually isn't similar to a business at all.

 

[406dn]

Everyone has their individual relationship with money. Life can be pretty miserable without enough of it. Many people who prioritize money over most everything else are often unsatisfied as well.

Earlier today, while riding one of my horses, along the Clark's Fork river bottom, I was thinking about this thread. I think over the course of my adult life, there has been a dramatic widening of the socio- economic spectrum. Two major reasons are the cutting of the top marginal tax rates, and the decline of organized labor.

The lower marginal tax rates makes accumulating wealth easier for top earners. Working class people have not shared in the growth of the economy in decades. The tax cuts do not really benefit them directly, since their earnings are very modest.

I got sidetracked when responding to @Irrelevant, and thought I lost this portion of the thread. So, to complete my thoughts.

I have mentioned earlier in some thread, that if I could change anything about the tax code, it would be to treat earnings from capital and labor, equally. In addition to the lowered marginal rates, wealthy people get favored treatment from their capital earnings. I've been retired for 13+ years now. During that time, my "capital" has more than doubled. Just this year, owing a debt to Trump's asinine war, I've made more than my best three years, while working. Of course a dollar then was worth a good bit more than today's dollar. The point being, when you accumulate a certain amount of capital, the compounding really accelerates. In my case, the income will be taxed as income. For a wealthier person, in an after market account, these gains are taxed at a more favorable rate.

LOL, did you provide retirement to your kids, 401k match, did you pay your kids/wife for every chore done? Or did you count on your employees to take some amount of ownership (voluntary or pressured) to make the "business" run better? Did your business have to compete against other businesses? What service provided the income?

It's a nifty idea, but actually isn't similar to a business at all.

Actually there is a very good chance that my death will fund their retirement. I also paid for their educations.

PS: while feeding my horses a carrot, I realized that of course I paid my kids for every chore...just like a business...less than their work was worth.

 

[Treeshark]

All this talk of running a household like a business gave me an idea.

My youngest is getting put on a PIP when she gets home from swim practice. Her room is a sty.

 

[westbranch]

All this talk of running a household like a business gave me an idea.

My youngest is getting put on a PIP when she gets home from swim practice. Her room is a sty.

Everyone knows that if you are put on a PIP its time to look for a new job. They are just looking for excuses to get rid of someone at that point.

 

[Irrelevant]

All this talk of running a household like a business gave me an idea.

My youngest is getting put on a PIP when she gets home from swim practice. Her room is a sty.

I run ours as a benevolent dictatorship (I believe I stole that from vikingsguy)

 

[Treeshark]

Everyone knows that if you are put on a PIP it’s time to look for a new job. They are just looking for excuses to get rid of someone at that point.

Exactly. Thin ice!

 

[antelopedundee]

Social Security, as a retirement account, is a horrible rate of return. If one could opt out and be forced to contribute the equal amount as well as the company contribution to SS into an individual retirement account invest in the S&P, one would retire with a massive amount compared to SS. And your heirs would inherit the left over. That assumes one works at a reasonable salary for about 40-45 years. ~12.4% of annual earnings, average annual return of the S&P x 40-45 years. Of course,SS isn’t just for retirement and it was never meant to be the sole source of income during retirement.

The general argument against the idea under Bush was you could have a recession and at the same time the value of the holdings in the trust fund would fall. It is a good argument. The idea resurfaces because a lot of people don’t even believe in recessions anymore.

There are $2.7t in social security trust fund. Hard to make any trade of size without everyone seeing you move the price. Another reason it’s not in the S&P.

1. The market probably couldn't assimilate such a massive inflow of cash.

2. The trust fund is nothing but Government IOUs. They used the surplus SS money for other expenses. They keep enough to pay benefits and run the agency. There is no way that the Government is going to let trillions acumulate in what is essentially a cash fund while other departments are in need. At this time benefits exceed income into the trust fund so now the Government has to pony up in order to cover the shortfall, in other words make good on those IOUs. In all likelihood they have to borrow in order to cover their IOUs. Not only are they paying interest on the IOUs, they are also paying interest on the money that they borrow to cover those IOUs. Stupid on stilts as someone recently said.

No wonder djt is grousing. Note to djt, YTF should the states make good on the IOUs? They didn't borrow the money.

 

[antelopedundee]

Two days ago they put out a list of things Trump Co bought. 3,700 trades in Q1. Almost no one cares. We are all desensitized to the grift.

Trump ethics filing reveals thousands of trades tied to U.S. stocks

The purchases included securities linked to Microsoft, Meta Platforms, Oracle, Broadcom, Bank of America and Goldman Sachs.

www.nbcnews.com

https://extapps2.oge.gov/201/Presiden.nsf/PAS+Index/405E4EC4E27BE8D185258DF7002DD1C0/$FILE/Trump%2C%20Donald%20J.-05.08.2026-278T(2).pdf

And I bet he knew exactly what to say about the war and its ending in order to move those positions in a favorable way. There's more to TACO than meets the eye.

 

[antelopedundee]

I received an unsolicited email this morning saying I was a participant in a settlement for my previous employer charging too high of fees on 401ks.

Ok. I knew nothing about it. I looked into the settlement. $250,000 divided over 93,000 people. I’m going to get $2.68. I feel like we’re giving it to the man! Lawyers must have gotten some type of return for work done.

Couple days ago I got $49.12 in my PP account for a similar settlement.

 

[antelopedundee]

Pensions that are not annually adjusted via COLA are worthless. I remember hearing stories about persons back in the 70's retiring from the big 3 auto makers with pensions of $450.00 per month after 30 years. They thought the slayed a fat hog back then.

If you have an annually adjusted pension now, you are ahead of many retirees because you need to have saved less for the same benefit. Regardless of what might have been, save as hard as you can wherever you are in your career. Max out 401k's if available as well as IRA's when you can. Get out and stay out of debt the sooner the better.

IIRC my wife's pension's COLA is based on how well the pension fund did in the prior year.