And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[tlowe1209]

The number of full price NR elk licenses won’t change due to the fact that however many NR LQ tags are lost if it goes 90/10 that amount of NR full price tags would be added to NR General Full price elk tags to bring the quota back to 7250.

I’m not talking about the general tags, I play the points game to hunt better units. It’s just a shame all these years in everyone’s okay with screwing the guy that’s paid thousands of dollars in applications and points fees. Hell I have thousands just in sheep and moose that are essentially useless but I kept buying them for conservation. Guess now it’s time to cut ties with that.

 

[ccc23454]

I’m not talking about the general tags, I play the points game to hunt better units. It’s just a shame all these years in everyone’s okay with screwing the guy that’s paid thousands of dollars in applications and points fees. Hell I have thousands just in sheep and moose that are essentially useless but I kept buying them for conservation. Guess now it’s time to cut ties with that.

Your choice, you can stop

 

[cahunter805]

I’m not talking about the general tags, I play the points game to hunt better units. It’s just a shame all these years in everyone’s okay with screwing the guy that’s paid thousands of dollars in applications and points fees. Hell I have thousands just in sheep and moose that are essentially useless but I kept buying them for conservation. Guess now it’s time to cut ties with that.

I play the points game also. As a NR I hope the 90/10 doesn’t pass but I also feel residents should have their opportunities as well. If it does go 90/10 I will either continue to apply for the tags I’ve been after and may have to wait a few more years. Or switch units or maybe just share my points with some friends and go hunt WY.

 

[RobertD]

As a NR, I'd take the 80/20 split on pronghorn and no rollover of the 80% resident tags all day. I think it's very fair.

I think that's the benefit of Buzz's proposal though. Rollover seems inevitable even if residents get a separate, first crack at leftovers. Unless I'm badly mistaken I don't think resident demand is high enough to account for the entire 80 percent.

 

[tlowe1209]

Your choice, you can stop

That’s not the point. If this was a private enterprise you’d get convicted for running a Ponzi scheme. Once someone spends a dollar you shouldn’t just get to change the rules 10 years later after you’ve taken their money. That’s dishonest and completely lacks integrity....all for what a 7% increase in draw odds when for non residents this will pretty much make limited entry tags unobtainium. Just don’t see how that’s fair.

 

[cahunter805]

That’s not the point. If this was a private enterprise you’d get convicted for running a Ponzi scheme. Once someone spends a dollar you shouldn’t just get to change the rules 10 years later after you’ve taken their money. That’s dishonest and completely lacks integrity....all for what a 7% increase in draw odds when for non residents this will pretty much make limited entry tags unobtainium. Just don’t see how that’s fair.

You still have all the points you purchased. They aren’t taking anything from you.
What worries me more about the 90/10 split is that in many NR LQ units it will essentially eliminate the random draw.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Couldn’t those residents that want a pronghorn tag just put in for a 2nd & 3rd choice in the initial drawing?
Why wait for a leftover draw?

This is a good question. I made a smartass comment earlier about 2 buck tags but I'm not entirely familiar with how this works for residents. Residents should absolutely get a pronghorn buck tag if they want one. If residents are looking for a second buck tag before NR get a shot at them, that is getting pretty greedy.

 

[BuzzH]

This is a good question. I made a smartass comment earlier about 2 buck tags but I'm not entirely familiar with how this works for residents. Residents should absolutely get a pronghorn buck tag if they want one. If residents are looking for a second buck tag before NR get a shot at them, that is getting pretty greedy.

How do you figure that?

Residents, by Regulation are to receive 80% of pronghorn tags.

You think the initial tags splits where NR's already receive a full 20% isn't enough? What other state gives even 20% of their pronghorn tags to NR hunters?

Unbelievable.

 

[BrentD]

How do you figure that?

Residents, by Regulation are to receive 80% of pronghorn tags.

You think the initial tags splits where NR's already receive a full 20% isn't enough? What other state gives even 20% of their pronghorn tags to NR hunters?

Unbelievable.

What state as only 578k people?

Unbelievable.

 

[BuzzH]

You still have all the points you purchased. They aren’t taking anything from you.
What worries me more about the 90/10 split is that in many NR LQ units it will essentially eliminate the random draw.

This may be the only legitimate concern with 90-10 that I have heard . Its well worth thinking about, and at first blush, I know there are ways to work around that to still give everyone a chance at a random tag.

I've always thought that even under the current splits there needs to be a way to give NR's a chance at random tags in both Sheep and Moose. The way I look at it, the Random/Preference splits should be based on TOTAL tag allocations, not unit specific. Further, there is no regulation or statute that says anything other than 75% must be offered to preference point holders, but its purely the way the GF Department chooses to issue random tags based by unit. They DO NOT have to do it that way because of regulation or statute.

The way its being done now, wayyyy less than 25% of the tags are being offered in the random portion of the draw.

 

[BuzzH]

What state as only 578k people?

Unbelievable.

Population has ZERO to do with it. I'd be expecting legislation via Statute to force the Department to conduct a resident only drawing for our Statutorily promised allocations. The Commission will likely make that happen without forcing the Legislature to intervene, but they will if the Commission doesn't act.

This will be a change that is going to happen regardless of 90-10.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

How do you figure that?

Residents, by Regulation are to receive 80% of pronghorn tags.

You think the initial tags splits where NR's already receive a full 20% isn't enough? What other state gives even 20% of their pronghorn tags to NR hunters?

Unbelievable.

It is possible to be 100% correct according to regulation and still be greedy.

Wyoming can do whatever Wyoming wants. People outside of Wyoming are entitled to whatever opinion they want to hold of Wyoming.

QQ

 

[BuzzH]

It is possible to be 100% correct according to regulation and still be greedy.

Wyoming can do whatever Wyoming wants. People outside of Wyoming are entitled to whatever opinion they want to hold of Wyoming.

QQ

So, you don't think Wyoming Residents should be allowed to hold a resident only leftover draw from OUR initial allocation of 80% of the tags?

Is it greedy for NR's to expect more than 20% of the pronghorn tags available in Wyoming before we offer them to Residents in a leftover draw. Then move whatever is left to NR's after that.

I see no grievance for NR hunters on this issue...we're not asking to take a cut of the 20% that NR's are getting.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

How do you figure that?

Residents, by Regulation are to receive 80% of pronghorn tags.

You think the initial tags splits where NR's already receive a full 20% isn't enough? What other state gives even 20% of their pronghorn tags to NR hunters?

Unbelievable.

I didn't say 20% isn't enough. I said I see residents fighting for a second buck tag as greedy. I think it's fair that WY residents get their full 80% but how many antelope should a guy get to kill just so NR sportsman dont exceed their 20%? At what point is that considered greedy? Should that R shoot 5 antelope rather than 2 and allowing 3 NR to shoot 1 ea just to keep the 80/20 balance? Obviously these are hypotheticals as I have stated my ignorance to the details.

WY has been and is generous to NR but its a lot easier to "be generous" with a resident population to game abundance ratio that blows other states out of the water. WY, with involvement of resident sportsman such as yourself has done a great job managing the game and deserves credit. You can play the % allocation game all you want but WY residents currently enjoy the best residence hunter preference set up for elk/deer/antelope in the west. This bill is just expanding that lead so you are going to be perceived as greedy for wanting more than the best deal out there. I'm not blind to the fact that WY also probably has the least to offer economically to encourage people to live there so resident preference is certainly warranted.

 

[BuzzH]

I didn't say 20% isn't enough. I said I see residents fighting for a second buck tag as greedy. I think it's fair that WY residents get their full 80% but how many antelope should a guy get to kill just so NR sportsman dont exceed their 20%? At what point is that considered greedy? Should that R shoot 5 antelope rather than 2 and allowing 3 NR to shoot 1 ea just to keep the 80/20 balance? Obviously these are hypotheticals as I have stated my ignorance to the details.

WY has and is generous to NR but it sure seems that is a product of a small resident population and an abundance of game compared to other states. WY, with involvement of resident sportsman such as yourself has done a great job managing the game and deserves credit. You can play the % allocation game all you want but WY residents currently enjoy the best residence hunter preference set up for elk/deer/antelope in the west. This bill is just expanding that lead so you are going to be perceived as greedy for wanting more than the best deal out there. I'm not blind to the fact that WY also probably has the least to offer economically to encourage people to live there.

NR's can have a crack at any tags after the resident only leftover draw...nobody has a problem with that.

Yes, I think any resident that wants additional tags from the 80% allocation is absolutely entitled to them. What concern is of it yours how many pronghorn tags a Resident has? Our Commission sets the regulations including bag limits.

 

[NoWiser]

Buzz, do resident applicants get a crack at their second and third choices before the tags get rolled over to the NR draw? Serious question that I haven't been able to figure out.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

NR's can have a crack at any tags after the resident only leftover draw...nobody has a problem with that.

Yes, I think any resident that wants additional tags from the 80% allocation is absolutely entitled to them. What concern is of it yours how many pronghorn tags a Resident has? Our Commission sets the regulations including bag limits.

Of course, WY has the right to manage it's game for it's residents as they see fit so residents can be entitled to kill however many antelope they want within those guidelines. And the rest of the world will see WY residents as greedy for fighting to shoot as many antelope as it takes @ $27-42 a pop just so NR don't get more than 20%, in lieu of offering more NR hunters the opportunity to shoot 1 for $341-629 a pop..

It's of limited concern to me, just sharing opinion. I think it makes sense for WY residents to get a great preference to the game in their state. That said, foregoing potential additional advocates and and revenue for the agency just so residents can hit a % number closer to other states is silly.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, do resident applicants get a crack at their second and third choices before the tags get rolled over to the NR draw? Serious question that I haven't been able to figure out.

Yes, however even those opportunities are drying up depending on where they apply for their second and third choices. I know a fair few Residents who apply for second and third choices that have available tags, but applicants are exceeding available second and third choice tags too.

So, that's why this second resident only leftover draw has become a big topic the last few years.

 

[BuzzH]

Of course, WY has the right to manage it's game for it's residents as they see fit so residents can be entitled to kill however many antelope they want within those guidelines. And the rest of the world will see WY residents as greedy for fighting to shoot as many antelope as it takes @ $27-42 a pop just so NR don't get more than 20%, in lieu of offering more NR hunters the opportunity to shoot 1 for $341-629 a pop..

It's of limited concern to me, just sharing opinion. I think it makes sense for WY residents to get a great preference to the game in their state. That said, foregoing potential additional advocates and and revenue for the agency just so residents can hit a % number closer to other states is silly.

I thought I've read that monetizing and commercializing wildlife based on cost was a taboo to the NAM? Not every wildlife decision should be based on money.

Further, anything left over after the Resident only leftover draw would still be available to either R or NR.

Even further than that, I don't see any problem with Residents wanting additional pronghorn tags from their/our initial 80% quota if they want them and there's nothing greedy about it.

 

[NoWiser]

Yes, however even those opportunities are drying up depending on where they apply for their second and third choices. I know a fair few Residents who apply for second and third choices that have available tags, but applicants are exceeding available second and third choice tags too.

So, that's why this second resident only leftover draw has become a big topic the last few years.

Thanks Buzz.

I honestly don't have strong feelings about this either way. But, coming from someone who doesn't really care how this plays out, it seems that this change would mainly benefit those residents who do want to shoot two bucks. For those who only care to shoot one, they could just do 5 minutes of research and accomplish the same thing by putting down a 3rd choice that will actually be available to them.