And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[Irrelevant]

You aren't solving those issues by adjusting license fees...

Nope, but when the price for an elk tag goes from $575 to $1100 in three years you aren't inviting commoners either.

things like a grass roots RMEF chapter dissipating because those specific NRs had to make the personal decision that the cost and ability to procure a tag to hunt out west exceeded what they could afford makes sense. and that is true problem to think about in the future of western hunting.

but honestly, if some guy decided he no longer cares about public lands or wildlife because he can't draw a wyoming tag as much as he used to...... frankly that guy was never a true advocate for wildlife and public lands to begin with, not a loss in my mind.

every state in the union offers hunting opportunities. residents need to take advantage of that. western hunting is not your only option. it may be one of the best options to DEVELOP a public lands advocate, but not the only option.

you don't need to take a kid elk or pronghorn hunting in the west to turn him into a public lands advocate. go otc spring turkey hunting in colorado, i guarantee you will drum up a gobble or two and you will have a gorgeous camping trip on public land and probably see some cow elk (i don't think i've ever not seen cow elk while spring turkey hunting). go javelina hunting in arizona. go bear hunting in colorado. go sage grouse hunting in wyoming. go blue grouse hunting damn near anywhere. hell go hike a fourteener in colorado and shoot a few ptarmigan, or shoot some marmots on a backpacking trip and eat it with fresh alpine lake trout.

for crying out loud, drive to wyoming and go wildlife watching with your kids - the wildlife are EVERYWHERE up there, then go fishing for trout and have a burger for dinner in a quaint western small town.

gosh, just go backpacking somewhere, it helps you appreciate the land and you'll probably see widlife along the way.

elk hunting, or even pronghorn hunting, in the west is not the only to develop young mind into a public lands and wildlife advocate, saying anything otherwise is a selfish and lazy cop out.

now that said, i do agree the trend towards exclusivity and ever increasing prices is concerning, and not helpful to the cause.

We see eye to eye on a lot. But there's not a chance in hell you can make the same advocate for wildlife out of kids by wildlife viewing that you can with hunting. The only real advocates you're going to make will be pseudo advocates that likely tend anti hunting.

 

[BuzzH]

Misleading.

Currently 16% of limited elk tags go to NR. Shrinking it to 10% is not 6% less. Sure, 6% less of the total, but NR will be receiving 37.5% less tags than they had previously received.

NR get 25% of MSG tags so taking it to 10% means they will receive a 60% reduction in tags.

*Honestly I don't care about the limited stuff, take it to zero. It's general opportunity I care about... but also facts.

Misleading?


I agree your statement of NRs losing opportunity on elk sure is...they will lose no opportunity at 7,250 full priced elk tags. That's a fact. They are not receiving 37.5% less elk tags...receiving the exact same number....it's regulation....7250.

 

[stealthy_bowman]

Coming in WY 2022 legislative session: 7250 3125 NR elk tags by statute. Because why should residents' opportunity be so hindered, and hunting pressure so high on general elk units??

Don't worry, it will fail in 2022 and 2023 because WYOGA will oppose it, so you'll still have a couple of years left to burn your points. Once the transferable landowner tags are approved in 2023, it'll sail right on through in '24.

You saw it here first...


FWIW, I'm resigned to the reality of moving goalposts in the game of NR western hunting. I may go less often, but I'm too smitten to break up.

Doubt they would be ok with losing $4.5MM. Moreover, outfitters would be fuming...

 

[LuckyTom]

True advocacy is nice but it doesn't mean squat. It's all about money.

 

[thomas89]

Admittedly I’m not on a ton of different outdoor hobby sites, but I tell you the hunting ones are by far the most actively engaged in the fight for public land access that I see.

People fight for what they have a vested interested in, selfish or not. How many of you posted any of these bills to your bass fishing buddies to continue the fight? Or bird watching groups? Backpacking groups, mountain bikers, etc.

That’s great that NR hunters still get the same amount of full price tags (in the form of general units), but If I recall correctly, the entire point of LQ tags was to offer an exceptional hunting experience with higher than average success rates and animal quality/numbers.

 

[Trial153]

I'm not real bougie....

just like a soupçon of bougie...

like....

like...

like a chukar hunter

The chukar hunter around Shell was fantastic the end of January. I almost broke out my tweed

 

[Dougfirtree]

Thanks, that's a positive. Might actually make it easier to draw a GEN tag I suppose and the increased NR presence on GEN units should, in theory, be offset by the resident hunters drawing additional LE units than in the past.

So there's an extra 3625 tag holders (perhaps mostly non residents), hunting on general tags each year? That could get interesting. I wonder how many fewer residents would be hunting a general, on average, because they were able to draw a LE?

I also don't see how type 4 elk tags would be affected by that. If you're taking away half of the type 4's from NR's, are residents really going to use their points for those tags, when type 1's are now easier for them to draw? Seems to me there are several reasons to separate type 4's from this, but that will affect the 8 million dollars estimate...

Also, will the reduction in NR LE tags be taken proportionately from Type 1's and Type 4's, or will it come more from one, or the other?

For those of you more in the know, if one were going to write letters, who would be key players in the Legislature to write to? I'm assuming the bills sponsors are more or less, a lost cause. I don't see this legislation as a giant turd that makes no sense, but I do see it as problematic in its current form.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Misleading?


I agree your statement of NRs losing opportunity on elk sure is...they will lose no opportunity at 7,250 full priced elk tags. That's a fact. They are not receiving 37.5% less elk tags...receiving the exact same number....it's regulation....7250.

So in the case of elk specifically the rule, say of the current 7250, 250 tags are for LE units, 7000 are general. (taking a wag). After this law, 156 tags will be for LE units and 7094 will go to the general pool.

Is that a fair characterization of your statement, incorrect number notwithstanding?

 

[TOGIE]

We see eye to eye on a lot. But there's not a chance in hell you can make the same advocate for wildlife out of kids by wildlife viewing that you can with hunting. The only real advocates you're going to make will be pseudo advocates that likely tend anti hunting.

it's just a start for getting kids exposed to nature and the beauty of public land and what lives on it. it's not about taking kids wildilfe viewing and not taking them hunting. go hunt jack rabbits in the morning and then sit on a hill and glass herds of pronghorn. just be outside. and then keep trying to get them a pronghorn tag in the mean time.

granted I don't have kids and i'm salty and tired enough at just having a new puppy for a full week now. so certainly my thoughts on children are worth only so much

but it's just a tool in a large tool chest is my point. you don't have to shoot the pronghorn to start to develop awe, wonder, and respect for the animal and where it lives.

now if you hope to turn a kid into a passionate public land hunter by only driving to wyoming every spring and glassing pronghorn and doing nothing else, then yeah, good luck lol

 

[Shangobango]

My apologies for the shitty, passive aggressive comment. I do respect people that view.

No worries. I am prone to making shitty comments myself.

 

[BigHornRam]

it's a tough balance. overall i get the desire for residents to want to have good opportunity, i have the same sentiment. with wyoming it's tough because i look at the state and ask: how bad has it been for you guys? missing out on a lot of tags up there?

but then i could ask the same thing of myself, i'm not missing out any tags in colorado. it's conflicting. my first animal was a wyoming pronghorn doe as a young adult onset hunter. though i had a very very strong passion for wyoming before i started hunting - having relatives in the state and having spent a large fraction of my childhood summers up there - but that successful doe and a wonderful experience with the warden was quite a good start for my first big game hunt. definitely helped instill that passion. but for me the passion was already a runaway train, it was inevitable.

but i realize, and now not every person is the same and backgrounds are different, but i had a mind ripe and fertile to be a big advocate of public land and wildilfe for not growing up hunting or in a hunting family. my dad and i spent our summers backpacking and eating trout cooked over backcountry fires growing up - honestly that's where it all started

Well said. My love for Wyoming wildlands (and all the mountain states) started with family backpack trips. I grew up in a dirt poor family of 6 and still grateful for the trips my parents took us on with their limited means. That's where it all started for me. I'm the only one left in my immediate family that still hunts, but all my family members still value public lands.

 

[Irrelevant]

it's just a start for getting kids exposed to nature and the beauty of public land and what lives on it. it's not about taking kids wildilfe viewing and not taking them hunting. go hunt jack rabbits in the morning and then sit on a hill and glass herds of pronghorn. just be outside. and then keep trying to get them a pronghorn tag in the mean time.

granted I don't have kids and i'm salty and tired enough at just having a new puppy for a full week now. so certainly my thoughts on children are worth only so much

but it's just a tool in a large tool chest is my point. you don't have to shoot the pronghorn to start to develop awe, wonder, and respect for the animal and where it lives.

now if you hope to turn a kid into a passionate public land hunter by only driving to wyoming every spring and glassing pronghorn and doing nothing else, then yeah, good luck lol

It won't be the same. Try taking your pup to look at birds but never chase birds and see if you still get a good bird dog.

 

[TOGIE]

It won't be the same. Try taking your pup to look at birds but never chase birds and see if you still get a good bird dog.

i guess you missed my point

 

[1_pointer]

It won't be the same. Try taking your pup to look at birds but never chase birds and see if you still get a good bird dog.

Very apt analogy IMO!!

 

[1_pointer]

i guess you missed my point

I'd say you missed his...

 

[Irrelevant]

To clarify, there appear to be two thoughts. 1 that restricting hunters will restrict public land advocates. 2. That restricting hunters will reduce hunting and wildlife advocates.

For me,
1. No, not necessarily
2. Yes, absolutely

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I wonder what the chances are that something like the reduction to 90/10 goes ahead for MSG, prices go up but splits stay the same for elk/deer/antelope.

 

[SAJ-99]

It won't be the same. Try taking your pup to look at birds but never chase birds and see if you still get a good bird dog.

But we need all the advocates we can get for keeping public land public. I am not turning anyone away. If we end up disagreeing with these people on a different subject, like hunting, we can have that discussion later.

 

[TOGIE]

I'd say you missed his...

no i'm ignoring it because it's an attempt to refute a point i wasn't making

 

[SaskHunter]

I'm not real bougie....

just like a soupçon of bougie...

like....

like...

like a chukar hunter

Un petit peu bougie, du genre, LaCroix bougie!