Your thoughts?

[danr55]

We understand HoseB.. You're easily surprised. THings like emotion and sharing surprise you. Gratitude and service you find amazing. The idea of giving back is completely foreign to you and a good part of your generation. All you are interested in is "what's in it for me?".... I'm not sure who coined the phrase "the ME generation", but it sure does fit.

 

[Tom]

Algiers didn't get independence from France until 1962.

"Algiers played a strategic role in World War II as the headquarters of De Gaulle's Free French army, remaining an important operations centre from 1943 until the conclusion of the war. Throughout the world liberation movements emerged in the aftermath of the war and by the beginning of 1957 Algiers was at the epicentre of the Algerian war of liberation.
With the coming of independence in 1962 Algiers became the capital of the new republic."

You don't even want to support hunting Jose, because its being challenged in New Jersey, I guess. Is that your stance on that one?

 

[BuzzH]

I tell you what...theres a big difference between WWII vets and the vietnam vets...no question about that. This post illustrates it perfectly.

I suspect the WWII vets likely call the Vietnam vets the "me generation" or the "whats in it for me" generation.

Both my grandfathers were WWII vets, one served in the Phillipines, one in Germany liberating concentration camps, and my Father-in-law flew B-17's from 1944-1945. NEVER ONE TIME did I hear ANY of them say anything about blank checks, demanding respect, etc. and would have laughed out loud at the numbskull who wrote the piece of trash in the original post by Cali Hunter.

They didnt expect or demand anything from anybody. They came home, moved on and lead productive lives...just like Nemont has.

The more Nemont posts, the more I like him.

 

[Tom]

246 Medals of Honor recipients during Vietnam,

(from many states, but some states haven't had any recipients since WWII for some reason, 246/50 is almost 5, but some states didn't have any, not even in Korea)

http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/war/17_vietnam.html

Read some of their citations, it gives you an appreciation of what Cali is talking about.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Tom,
Nobody is saying anything about serving not being honorable. Just the opposite.

It is the return to Civilian life that is being discussed. The anonymous author wants to have Eternal Gratitude and to be able to collect interest on his "blank check" for perpetuity.

For whatever reason, Vietnam created a "Me Generation" that people felt "owed" something. And, if they didn't get enough, then they felt compelled to discredit others like John Kerry who had MovedOn and led productive lives.

 

[lilbiggun]

This is better than a soap opera.

I am a vet, I have never asked anything from someone else cuz of that "status".

All this guy was stating is that when you join the military, you can be killed for wearing a uniform. I dont give a rats ass on why someone joined, theres a multitude of reasons. The fact is you can die.

No where did I see where he damned folks for not joining. this touchy feely bullshit that is running rampant nowadays loves trying to read inbetween the lines and when nothing is there they make crap up. is it guilt??

I love reading how something like this brings up politics. what a chicken shit defense. Let me guess Bush is at fault for all the deaths in WWII also. For all you libs, clinton could have stopped alot of this with what is going on right now.

Back to "as the world turns".........

 

[MattK]

lilbiggun- Can you name the most hazardous job? Do you feel the military is the only occupation you can be killed at? There is a different type of risk with every occupation but the "blank check" analogy is crap. Does anyone who "writes a blank check" deserve this same type of "respect"? How about miners...pretty hazardous job considering all the dangers in and out of a mine. How about tree fallers, a lot lose limbs, appendages and lives? There is honor in serving in the military but a lot of the jobs are no more dangerous or any more honorable than a desk jocky. Honor and respect are earned not by position but by the individual person...What's the saying, something about "the uniform doesn't make the man, the man makes the uniform". I would have to agree with BuzzH...My grandparents would very, very, very seldom talk about the War and they didn't need nor look for a "thank you". Most of the people I know who served in Vietnam don't talk about it either (it must be a MT thing). They would rather it not brought up at all...there's always a few squeaky wheels that need an extra pat on the back and an "atta boy"...the same ones usually want everyone to feel sorry for them also, they want to be "special".

 

[JB]

My grandparents would very, very, very seldom talk about the War and they didn't need nor look for a "thank you".

maybe they were behind a desk or just a cook or something.
I think the author was taliking about real soldiers.

 

[JoseCuervo]

maybe they were behind a desk or just a cook or something.
I think the author was taliking about real soldiers.

Like the Imaginary Corporal and his Dutch Ovens?

Somebody send him an eMail and get him in here. These are the threads that get him fired up enough to gas up the Vega and drive out here and kick someone's ass.

 

[JB]

gas up the Vega

 

[Tom]

More Vietnam veterans were maimed and saved than other wars, is my understanding. Those required more follow up care medically than others. Some Vietnam veterans were exposed to the Agent Orange chemical which they get some benefits for now after a huge medical study. Other veterans of other wars were not exposed to that chemical. There are some things different about Vietnam veterans no doubt.

The Vietnam veterans I know are amoung the first to give an "atta boy", i.e. good job soldier and thank you, to the current veterans. They don't want everyone to feel sorry for them, not that I see. They have the right to despise or praise Sen.Kerry all they want for whatever he has done or not done, just like everyone else.

There's a difference between being shot at and booby trapped by the enemy on foreign territory and your keyboard possibly shorting out and electrocuting you or dropping a tree on yourself at home down the road from a hospital. Accidents are different than combat, when it comes down to it, no doubt.

 

[MattK]

JB- You're wrong...S. Pacific for one...he got shot at quite a few times, he was almost killed by a japanese soldier hidden in a trap door with a bamboo bullet. I know he got a purple heart...never said how or why but he was drill Sergeant. He was also on a transport ship when the group was attacked by kamikazes. The other grandfather brought back pictures that would almost make you sick. The pictures were of people in concentration camps. He kept them in a scrapbook and I can't ever remember seeing him look through them and he never talked about them either...So as usual you are full of shit. I also knew a man (friend of my grandparents) that flew over Germany. He was a tailgunner and again...never talked about the war. He would talk about the different planes he saw but never about the actual conflicts. On once occassion someone asked him specifically about battles he was in...the only thing he would say is his bomber was one of only a couple that came back from a mission. He said his pilot must have been luckier than the others.

 

[noharleyyet]

I would have to agree with BuzzH...(matt)

...yea bud, like you ever disagree.

"the numbskull who wrote the piece of trash" (buzz)

..wow!....so, let me get this straight, this anonymous source doesn't deserve 'interest' (abstract allusion to a weenie's gratitude) because he might be a VNam vet...or he's not kin to you or a friend of someone kin to you....that about it?

 

[JB]

wow Matt, I didnt think you would be that easy to get on a hook.(this is catch and release, right?)

sounds like i may have struck a nerve when I downplayed your grandparents service.......you went right in to stories and all! the way you tell it, you seem to be under the impression that I should be thankful for their service.
I am very thankful for what they did.....even to the cooks and desk jockeys.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

JB, You can bet your Sweet ass that those on the front line thought of those cooks and desk jockey alot diferently than what you implyed. As to the quote...Self Gradifying verse that a Solider tested in the heat of Battle would ever ask to represent them. John

 

[MattK]

JB- Again, you're wrong and full of shit...most of the information I got about my grandparents service were from secondary sources. Neither of them could give a rats ass what you thought of them and didn't need or want your "thanks". BTW- I found the purple heart in the bottom of a trunk, that should tell you something. They never talked about it...they didn't feel "entitled" because of their military service. It never hit a conversation and was quick to change if it did. There was no "blank check".

 

[JB]

Draftdud, my comment about cooks and desk jockeys was in responce to quotes like these.........and leave my sweet ass out of this!

JB,
Do you just throw a blanket of Eternal Gratitude to everyone who ever served in the Service? Be it Marine, Sailor, Airman, or Coastie? Do you throw the same blanket for Grunts in the field as you do for paper pushers in DC?

Matt, Im not gonna try and catch the same lil fish over and over again. not very sporting ya know.

 

[Tom]

A lot more that happened in Vietnam was on TV than for WWII. I think its good people at home saw some of this, so returning veterans could talk about it if they wanted to, but that's me. Many events that occur are just too much for one person to handle themselves.

I know a guy who was in Pearl Harbor when the japanese hit it. He survived, but he was a mental case for years and he still can't stand being around wounded veterans today. The Vietnam veterans I know can stand it and they want to help todays wounded soldiers recuperate as much as they can.
That's a good thing, right?

 

[ELKCHSR]

As usual, some people who don't believe in any thing remotely involving the military as the true strengths of America still come out as having the biggest and the best history had to offer (not discounting any service individuals offered for their country)

Kind of amazing if you ask me, reminds me of the atheist who thanks God when a life threatening issue is presented then goes back to non belief when the crisis is over (hypocritical no matter how you look at it)

If any of you want to see how much any of the services don't want to talk about their history, you should try visiting the vet homes in your local

These individuals want to pass on any history to people younger than them; some won't talk about actual violent events but will talk about the heroics of their buddies

There's a lot of interesting information one can find out about our written or unwritten history and the upstanding values this nation used to adhere to

I think there is far too much read into the first post on this thread, if it is taken at face value.

Those so negative against it show values lacking in today’s society and the true failings of what seems to be most Americans today, the only way these individuals will be happy is when this country is flying a flag of another nation (or a white one such as France)

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Yeah, Matt sure changed his tune when it became personal...kind of like alot of vets, whosae service was very personal. For people who didn't talk about it, there sure seem to be a lot of stories told to Matt by someone.

Lot of differences - huge victory celebrations and welcome home parties for WWII vets. The average WWII vet spent a few weeks in combat at a time. The grunts (front line troops, not REMFs) spent their whole tour in the bush in Viet Nam.

I rarely talk about my service. Most people I work with don't even know I am a vet. It comes up when the subject is raised, and even then I don't share all that much. (Who on here can give much detail on my time overseas? Anyone know if I've got any awards? Does anyone here really know what serving cost me? I don't talk about it because I don't expect anyone to care and it really is not all that pertinent to where I am today. )

I brought the subject up because I love yanking people's chains. I knew how most of those who have posted here would react. Mostly because the non-vets will belittle those here who are vets and trivialize the service they gave. Talk about the "me" generation - not one of those guys has said thanks to anyone on here who served...and as I said before, I joined to avoid the draft, so do not consider myself heroic or owed anything.

The main difference between the VN vet and the WWII vet is that we won WWII. Yet the blame for the loss does not rest upon the shoulders of the grunt, but upon the shoulders of the politicians. We should either never have gone in, or gone in with the resolve to win. It reminds me of the current situation, except that most folks do not vilify today's grunt, while the VN vet was. From the time he got out of boot camp, his service was denigrated and it continued when he came home and tried to find work. How difficult was it for your grandparents, Matt, to find a job and how were they treated by the populace? They were treated with respect and gratitude - and rightly so.

Most Viet Nam vets ask for nothing from you...and you have given nothing. Don't tell me that they are whiners, when all you have done is take.