Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[BuzzH]

That was passed 100+ years ago. I think this is the way to go but a 66 foot long easement surrounding every section will get costly. 66 feet long X 5280 feet is about 350,000 square feet or about 8 acres per side of each section. Also remember the 5th Amendment. The Fifth Amendment protects the right to private property. First, it states that a person may not be deprived of property by the government without “due process of law,” or fair procedures. In addition, it sets limits on the traditional practice of eminent domain, such as when the government takes private property to build a public road. Under the Fifth Amendment, such takings must be for a “public use” and require “just compensation” at market value for the property seized. Market value in Carbon county is low, but in Jackson Hole valley, it could be Millions.

BLah, Blah 5th amendment this and that.

Show your work where that was passed 100 years ago in north Dakota and that the private landowners were compensated or sued under the 5th.

You're full of crap.

 

[BuzzH]

As long as they keep the walls on private land, BLM rules are for public lands not private. Good luck getting a setback rule enforced on Private lands in rural America. I’m obviously just playing devils advocate here and hope for sportsmen sake this doesn’t happen but private property rights also have valid rights and building a fence or protection barrier is certainly within the right of a private landowner as long as it stays on private.

You might want to quit playing stupid, although in fairness, for some its not an act.

PDF pg. 13 - Fences Along Public-Private and Public-State Land Boundaries
The responsibility to install fencing along the boundary between Federal public lands and lands owned by non-Federal entities (i.e., State, local, private) generally rests with the non-Federal landowners...The Unlawful Inclosures Act of 1885 (UIA), as amended, is applicable to fencing constructed along or adjacent to public lands. This law states, in part, that "No person, by force, threats, intimidation, or by any fencing or enclosing, or other unlawful means...shall prevent or obstruct free passage or transit over or through the public lands..." The courts have ruled that the UIA guarantees access to public lands for all lawful purposes and that wildlife access to and use of Federal lands is a legitimate use.

 

[Bigjay73]

Amazing how even a pro public access thread turns into a pissing match

 

[BuzzH]

More here:

https://www.emwh.org/issues/public%20trust/mt%20pt%20threats/fencing/BLM%20Fencing%20Standards%20H-1741-1.pdf

Relevant court case:

https://www.emwh.org/issues/public%20trust/mt%20pt%20threats/fencing/United%20States%20ex%20rel%20Bergen%20v%20Lawrence.pdf

Lawrence constructed a twenty-eight mile fence enclosing over twenty thousand acres of private, state and federal lands in an area of south central Wyoming known as the Red Rim.

The land in this area is owned in the familiar "checkerboard" pattern as the result of the federal land grant to the Union Pacific Railroad.

Lawrence has fee title or permission to fence from the title owner of the private sections and has grazing permits on the federal and state sections. The fence enclosed 15 sections, or approximately 9,600 acres of unreserved public domain. However, the fence was constructed entirely on private lands, except where it crosses the common corners of state and federal sections.

 

[madtom]

I would love to know of such a law that would prevent putting a 2x4 in the ground right at each side of the property corner. Basically what elk mountain did only remove the chain and have them be 10 feet tall which would Basically make it impossible to pass. I say I would love to know because I know of one such corner where this is happening and if it's illegal, I'd love to explore my options

Given the number of wood posts I’ve seen shot off with AR-15s in Wyoming, I don’t suspect those 2x4s would have a long lifespan.

This thread has taken a weird turn through fantasy land.

 

[TOGIE]

funny how many new accounts pop up in threads like this just to play "devils advocate"

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

funny how many new accounts pop up in threads like this just to play "devils advocate"

I feel like I have heard them before ...

 

[FI460]

funny how many new accounts pop up in threads like this just to play "devils advocate"

I feel like I have heard them before ...

Sound awfully familiar don't they?

 

[BuzzH]

Given the number of wood posts I’ve seen shot off with AR-15s in Wyoming, I don’t suspect those 2x4s would have a long lifespan.

This thread has taken a weird turn through fantasy land.

Combined with the wind near elk mountain...you guessing one 30 round clip or two?

With the wind we've had lately...may not take a single round, just sayin'.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Though that’s a good idea, it’s going to be expensive. Figure about $8000 a corner, so we’re talking tens of millions of dollars for that as each square section with 4 corners would be $32,000 and that’s on the cheap side if the landowners won’t fight it, likely they might. Land swaps are also another option, though that’s a painstakingly slow process nowadays with BLM EIS required, it would take multiple decades for those.

Sorry to rain on your delusion, but SCOTUS has already ruled that the value of an easement can NOT include the value of the public accessesing public ground via the easement. The value is sole based on the private land itself and its uses. So, what is the fair market value of 10 square feet of land in the middle of nowhere, you would be lucky to get $100/corner. Probably more like $10.

 

[Trial153]

Up to 60k last time I checked

 

[BuzzH]

Up to 60k last time I checked

$62,940 as of right now, with over 1400 donors.

Was the top story on local news last night.

 

[Big Fin]

funny how many new accounts pop up in threads like this just to play "devils advocate"

Yes, a lot. Most of them get toasted before you even see them, as they are folks who've been sent packing in the past. Some are hard to trace and it takes a while to smoke out those previously-banned operators who get through. But, eventually, they get toasted.

 

[Jason73]

That was passed 100+ years ago. I think this is the way to go but a 66 foot long easement surrounding every section will get costly. 66 feet long X 5280 feet is about 350,000 square feet or about 8 acres per side of each section. Also remember the 5th Amendment. The Fifth Amendment protects the right to private property. First, it states that a person may not be deprived of property by the government without “due process of law,” or fair procedures. In addition, it sets limits on the traditional practice of eminent domain, such as when the government takes private property to build a public road. Under the Fifth Amendment, such takings must be for a “public use” and require “just compensation” at market value for the property seized. Market value in Carbon county is low, but in Jackson Hole valley, it could be Millions.

They took my friends beach front in New Jersey and sent them a nice $500 check. Pretty sure a private beach is worth more than 500 bucks, unless the government wants it.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Yes, a lot. Most of them get toasted before you even see them, as they are folks who've been sent packing in the past. Some are hard to trace and it takes a while to smoke out those previously-banned operators who get through. But, eventually, they get toasted.

And THAT is why I like it here. Appreciate all you do Randy.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Looks like Highfastflyer got nuked for the third time now?

 

[rogerthat]

Was referencing your comment that there is nothing legally preventing a landowner from building a wall on a public/ private corner...that is not a true statement.

Come on Buzz. We got to get that dang wall built...wait what is this thread about again?

 

[Dakotakid]

BLah, Blah 5th amendment this and that.

Show your work where that was passed 100 years ago in north Dakota and that the private landowners were compensated or sued under the 5th.

You're full of crap.

Just so neither side is misleading people-

It is established that the United States in 1866, by the passage of Section 2477, Revised Statutes, made an offer of section line easements on public land, and that the offer was accepted by the Territory of Dakota when it adopted Chapter 33, Laws of Dakota Territory, 1870-1871, codified as Chapter 29, Section 37 of thePolitical Code of 1877. Walcott Township v. Skauge, 6 N.D. 382), 71 N.W. 544, (1897); Northern Pacific Railway Company v. Lake, 10 N.D. 541, 88 N.W.

North Dakota Section line right of way was before statehood. Small v. Burleigh County 1974 I forgot to show my work.

 

[BuzzH]

Come on Buzz. We got to get that dang wall built...wait what is this thread about again?

How's that working?

I'll get you some pictures of that "wall" in a couple days...hopefully along with a coues buck or two.

 

[Pestcontrol]

You might want to quit playing stupid, although in fairness, for some its not an act.

PDF pg. 13 - Fences Along Public-Private and Public-State Land Boundaries
The responsibility to install fencing along the boundary between Federal public lands and lands owned by non-Federal entities (i.e., State, local, private) generally rests with the non-Federal landowners...The Unlawful Inclosures Act of 1885 (UIA), as amended, is applicable to fencing constructed along or adjacent to public lands. This law states, in part, that "No person, by force, threats, intimidation, or by any fencing or enclosing, or other unlawful means...shall prevent or obstruct free passage or transit over or through the public lands..." The courts have ruled that the UIA guarantees access to public lands for all lawful purposes and that wildlife access to and use of Federal lands is a legitimate use.

That’s the whole issue. It’s not THROUGH THE PUBLIC LANDS. There is no way you can physically not ENETER through the private lands geometric plane without trespassing upon that infinite point. Your trying to invalidate the Private Landowners rightful use and full enjoyment of his lands. This is the crux of the case the Prosecuting attorney will make if it goes to trial. I hope it doesn’t but it’s like Randy Newberg has stated numerous times it’s negating private property rights at their expense. Check it out here at the 14:00 mark BTW, he quotes the 5th amendment.