WOW Idaho rivers Rafting Draw!

[2rocky]

Well we can't say hunting is the only resource activity that requires "luck of the draw".

Now that i think of it, more and more outdoor activities, even non extractive ones, have more demand than supply!

https://www.facebook.com/reel/695673256871183

 

[TheTone]

I did a permit river every year from 2016-2019 I think. Have friends that routinely drew middle fork or main salmon about every other year. Huge dry spell for my friend group outside of being able to pick up turned in hells canyon permits. I’m sure glad though that outfitters are getting to plug up the rivers every year with with multiple trips…

 

[Elktrack]

I did a permit river every year from 2016-2019 I think. Have friends that routinely drew middle fork or main salmon about every other year. Huge dry spell for my friend group outside of being able to pick up turned in hells canyon permits. I’m sure glad though that outfitters are getting to plug up the rivers every year with with multiple trips…

Amen!
I can’t seem to draw MF. Drives me crazy trying to get Selway and MF permits. I’ve got an outfitter friend that just laughs at me about it. I know guys that draw frequently. Luckily there’s a lot of good non permit trips to keep me going.

 

[idelkslayer]

The outfitter allocations are way too high. They get 44% of the permits on the MF, and over 50% on the Main.

 

[Irrelevant]

Try logging in and hitting refresh at just the right time for a John Day permit...

 

[F250]

You have to draw a pass to float down a river ???

 

[Irrelevant]

You have to draw a pass to float down a river ???

Only some, popular rivers

 

[TheGreek]

Well we can't say hunting is the only resource activity that requires "luck of the draw".

Now that i think of it, more and more outdoor activities, even non extractive ones, have more demand than supply!

https://www.facebook.com/reel/695673256871183

Odds are just about as bad for the river permits here in NW CO.

 

[Mallardsx2]

I think most of us can agree that the outfitter welfare has run its course for all activities public land nationwide…..Lol

 

[Elktrack]

The outfitter allocations are way too high. They get 44% of the permits on the MF, and over 50% on the Main.

Yes. And though the number of permits may be 44%, the percentage of people that they put on the resource is far more than the other 56%. They take a lot of bodies and bigger groups of people.

 

[Irrelevant]

Yes. And though the number of permits may be 44%, the percentage of people that they put on the resource is far more than the other 56%. They take a lot of bodies and bigger groups of people.

But they also likely comply with the regs, which is more than many (most?) of the private parties I've ran into on the water. God knows I've never seen any enforcement outside of the boat ramp.

 

[Kaitum]

0 for 6 for me again this year. I feel I'd have better luck buying super tag tickets. My friends that seem to go on a river trip each year are either 1) retired with a flexible schedule and surf rec.gov for cancellation permits, or 2) retired with a flexible schedule and have a broad network of rafting friends who invite them. I did get invited to man a raft down the Grand Canyon this coming May but had to pass, that big water is a bit above my skill level.

 

[Elktrack]

But they also likely comply with the regs, which is more than many (most?) of the private parties I've ran into on the water. God knows I've never seen any enforcement outside of the boat ramp.

I’d agree with you on that. Especially when it comes to groover usage.

 

[TheTone]

But they also likely comply with the regs, which is more than many (most?) of the private parties I've ran into on the water. God knows I've never seen any enforcement outside of the boat ramp.

What have you seen from private parties that was concerning?

When I did the MF the one outfitter we encountered multiple times was a complete douche. Had to plug up the heads of rapids to get photo ops for his clients, completely blocked up the take out so his guides could have more of a party than worry about breaking down gear, basically told us we were scumbags for fishing streamers, bragged about how his clients obviously caught way more fish because he exclusively fishes dry’s, etc

 

[Elktrack]

What have you seen from private parties that was concerning?

When I did the MF the one outfitter we encountered multiple times was a complete douche. Had to plug up the heads of rapids to get photo ops for his clients, completely blocked up the take out so his guides could have more of a party than worry about breaking down gear, basically told us we were scumbags for fishing streamers, bragged about how his clients obviously caught way more fish because he exclusively fishes dry’s, etc

Outfitters are some of the worst offenders of bad takeout etiquette by far.

 

[Irrelevant]

What have you seen from private parties that was concerning?

Trash, groovers

 

[JoMo]

I call it the household annual donation to rec.gov. I have never once drawn a single permit during any of the prime summer months, in ~15 years of applying. Both my wife and I put in and she’s been picked once for the smith (not rec.gov) but it was during the height of Covid so we had to return it close to the launch date when we couldn’t make the logistics with daycare/childcare work.

I am grateful for the hunting tags I have pulled - my friends make sure to remind me that seems to be where any of my luck lands. I’ll take that too - but still would like for a friend or two to draw a permit here or there for some rivers.

 

[trb]

Much like the hunting tag world, I would recommend some of you do some research about the permit reissue process.

I am not saying the system is not messed up. Rec.gov has been demonstrably worse for my permit draw odds. But since rec.gov started hosting the lottery systems for a lot of western rivers (2010-20 depending on the river), I have held permits for the Yampa, Desolation, Westwater x3, San Juan x4, Salt, Lodore off the top of my head. In that same period I have been a guest on private permits for the Grand, the MF, SJ x3, Desolation again, etc.

There are also still some truly excellent unpermitted sections that I will not mention on a public forum. I will definitely concede that the Smith's lottery is a shitshow and I will likely never float it. I am largely unfamiliar with the permitted sections in OR, WA, and MT.

I have absolutely encountered river rangers on multiple of those stretches, and have had both positive and negative encounters with guided trips. I have also seen stretches like Ruby-Horsethief on the CO go from nearly empty when I first started floating it, to a chaotic free for all with poop and TP shoved under every rock at campsites, to fairly well regulated now (with some decently serious recent penalties for violations), but harder to acquire in the peak windows. For those of you trying to float more frequently, I'd highly recommend looking at shoulder or off season permits.

Just like hunting, there are pros and cons for making the permit system more accessible and publicized. A bigger tent theoretically activates more advocates, but we have seen that advocacy be ignored and the progress erased by the stroke of a pen with some of the public budget cuts heavily impacting land management agencies' ability to hire and retain seasonal staff, who have historically done the bulk of the riparian field work, whether it is research or enforcement. Similar to a lot of our western public lands, many of our rivers suffer from being underfunded relative to the intensity with which they are being loved to death.

 

[Irrelevant]

Much like the hunting tag world, I would recommend some of you do some research about the permit reissue process.

I am not saying the system is not messed up. Rec.gov has been demonstrably worse for my permit draw odds. But since rec.gov started hosting the lottery systems for a lot of western rivers (2010-20 depending on the river), I have held permits for the Yampa, Desolation, Westwater x3, San Juan x4, Salt, Lodore off the top of my head. In that same period I have been a guest on private permits for the Grand, the MF, SJ x3, Desolation again, etc.

There are also still some truly excellent unpermitted sections that I will not mention on a public forum. I will definitely concede that the Smith's lottery is a shitshow and I will likely never float it. I am largely unfamiliar with the permitted sections in OR, WA, and MT.

I have absolutely encountered river rangers on multiple of those stretches, and have had both positive and negative encounters with guided trips. I have also seen stretches like Ruby-Horsethief on the CO go from nearly empty when I first started floating it, to a chaotic free for all with poop and TP shoved under every rock at campsites, to fairly well regulated now (with some decently serious recent penalties for violations), but harder to acquire in the peak windows. For those of you trying to float more frequently, I'd highly recommend looking at shoulder or off season permits.

Just like hunting, there are pros and cons for making the permit system more accessible and publicized. A bigger tent theoretically activates more advocates, but we have seen that advocacy be ignored and the progress erased by the stroke of a pen with some of the public budget cuts heavily impacting land management agencies' ability to hire and retain seasonal staff, who have historically done the bulk of the riparian field work, whether it is research or enforcement. Similar to a lot of our western public lands, many of our rivers suffer from being underfunded relative to the intensity with which they are being loved to death.

I only know one person who's ever drawn a "premier" river permit. A few friends were lucky enough to tag along on other trips with friends of friends.

But that certainly doesn't mean we don't do trips, like you said, there are a lot of opportunities out there. Heck, the Desk-a-hooties is basically unlimited, and while it's not necessarily a wilderness trip, it has consistent WW and great scenery (and sometimes mediocre fishing).

 

[Zim]

I think most of us can agree that the outfitter welfare has run its course for all activities public land nationwide…..Lol

Glad I don’t do this rafting stuff. One welfare fiasco I don’t have to deal with. I got enough already.