World class outfitters SEC info...
- Thread starter schmalts
- Start date
Thanks guys. Like I said before, no credit due here as I was only passing on stuff from others and other forums. On the 24hourcampfire forum my post went sour with the first response, even name calling me a wanna-be rabble rouser. I didn't take kindly to it and of course it got ugly, i mixed up 2 guys with similar forum handles, mad an ass of myself, and now will fad away and stay on the forum i love the best... HUNT TALK.
Really, i got flamed a rabble rouser there because i never post in the hunting topics there until now and many had no clue who I was . I just go there for the rifle and reloading forums.
I can't do this shit anymore. Last night i didn't hardly sleep I was so wound up and feel like crap today. Laid there in bed at 11PM explaining to the Wife what was the scoop, i can't believe she even listened. She told me I should start my own ORG. I said I would love to but it is a full time job, and I am not leaving my job I have now just yet. Maybe I will someday and have Bigfin as my speech writer since he much better tact than me. Nemont as a backup
Really, i got flamed a rabble rouser there because i never post in the hunting topics there until now and many had no clue who I was . I just go there for the rifle and reloading forums.
I can't do this shit anymore. Last night i didn't hardly sleep I was so wound up and feel like crap today. Laid there in bed at 11PM explaining to the Wife what was the scoop, i can't believe she even listened. She told me I should start my own ORG. I said I would love to but it is a full time job, and I am not leaving my job I have now just yet. Maybe I will someday and have Bigfin as my speech writer since he much better tact than me. Nemont as a backup
Good for you Smaltz for bringing this to our attention. I'm the biggest capitalist you'll find but I deplore sneaky shit to make money.
However, Moosie, Don put his whole business plan out for you to read! I smell an opportunity for you!!!
However, Moosie, Don put his whole business plan out for you to read! I smell an opportunity for you!!!
Wyodeerhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,150
I agree with ya there
. BTW I know who Don is, actually met him a time or two.I too never liked how they blamed predators on everything. I am an avid predator hunter and I can't see how predators are as BIG a problem as they say they are. In fact I would put them towards the bottom of the list.
Anyways I would love to help out on MM's with a couple posts but I got BANNED two weeks ago for confronting a convicted poacher on there. My login name is no longer valid. The monstermuley click are like nazi's. The rule with extreme censorship. If you go against the grain you are out of there.
It kills me at mm's when someone they dont know poaches they want to hang him from a tree, but if its someone they all know then its ok, he made a mistake. He's never done that before. Same thing is happening with the SFW deal right now. If that was an organization like HTFW it would be allowed to play through. But if you go against one of their members, their groups then bam! That thread or post is gone before someone gets to read it.
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Wyo:
Was that the thread with "Snakerivercatman?" Good on you guys for calling him out. Another one of those "innocent guys" who pleads guilty, or in his case wife pleads guilty?
Moosie is to be thanked for letting us beat the piss out of each other and then laugh about it a couple weeks later. MM could use Moosie's locked up "nuke" button.
Was that the thread with "Snakerivercatman?" Good on you guys for calling him out. Another one of those "innocent guys" who pleads guilty, or in his case wife pleads guilty?
Moosie is to be thanked for letting us beat the piss out of each other and then laugh about it a couple weeks later. MM could use Moosie's locked up "nuke" button.
It has a lot to do with advertising, too, I believe.
Wyodeerhunter
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2002
- Messages
- 2,150
BigFin,
Yes it was snakrivercatman. Not only is his wife a convicted poacher but he has a few "minor" (if there's such a thing) wildlife violations also.
I think that those threads were the straw that broke the camels back. We had a nuke fest a while back talking about mike brownlee. Another convicted poacher and yet another one who is friends with a lot of guys on mm's. All we posted were facts and they still deleted our posts.
I would hate to see this website ever come to that.
Yes it was snakrivercatman. Not only is his wife a convicted poacher but he has a few "minor" (if there's such a thing) wildlife violations also.
I think that those threads were the straw that broke the camels back. We had a nuke fest a while back talking about mike brownlee. Another convicted poacher and yet another one who is friends with a lot of guys on mm's. All we posted were facts and they still deleted our posts.
I would hate to see this website ever come to that.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Schmalts,
I've always not cared for SFW and I have NO trouble explaining exactly why. Bigfin pretty much summed it up.
BHR,
like Oak said, if it makes you feel better I belong to the following:
Wyoming Wildlife Federation
B&C Club
P&Y Club
I buy hunting and or fishing licenses in no fewer than 5-6 states per year. I also donate to WY's ACCESS YES program every year...even though most years I dont hunt any ACCESS YES land or HMA's. I write on average 20-30 letters per year to various G&F agencies, commissions, etc. I comment on Travel Plans, oil and gas development, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and dont forget BHR, I've only spent 21 years working in Natural Resource Management. I've also taken enough science, forestry, wildlife, geology, etc. etc. classes to kill the average student.
I also supported the Mule Deer Foundation until I found out that SFW was heavily influenced by no other than...you guessed it Don Peay. The old MDF director and him were both on the same page, tight pals, and SFW has now all but officially taken over the MDF. One of the first things to really turn me off to the MDF once SFW got involved was the "kill everything that kills deer" attitude. Like Oak said, thousands of dollars being spent to "control" coyotes....thats an absolute waste of money. The MDF and SFW are both anti-all predators...wolves, cats, bears, coyotes, etc.
Same with FNAWS...after the latest BS between them and Grand Slam/Ovis...I'll not support either again. Wasting members money on bullshit greed, glory, ego, and money...over all things a frickin' simple phrase "Grand Slam". Talk about a grand slam in the ass of their collective membership and their "supposed" mission of putting sheep on the mountain. What a fargin' joke. Plus, once again...Peay is involved with FNAWS.
Let me be clear, I will not support any group that views predators as nothing more than an animal that needs to be killed for interfering with my chances at a deer, elk, moose, etc.
WILDLIFE conservation is my agenda...first and foremost...even before my own personal hunting agenda and the wildlife I choose to hunt.
Doing what is best for the wildlife should be the NUMBER ONE priority of the states. Unfortunately nearly all of the state wildlife agencies are now pandering to outfitters, guides, hunters, fishermen, landowners, FNAWS, MDF, RMEF, etc. etc.
Somewhere down the list is doing whats really best for wildlife.
BHR, you can squawk all you want about "capitalism"...it rarely exists in anything to do with hunting.
Tell me, under true capitalism...should AK have an outfitter requirement for goats, sheep, and grizzly bears? Should MT outfitters be given guaranteed deer and elk tags to sell to their clients? Should a large portion of NM's elk, deer, antelope, etc. etc. tags be put in a seperate outfitter only pool? Should a NR be forced to hire an outfitter to hunt a wilderness area in Wyoming?
Let me explain something to you...that isnt capitalism dude...thats the state governments subsidizing an industry through regulations regarding public wildlife. Where I come from thats socialism and welfare...something you pretend to hate most of the time. Unless of course its your broke-back outfitter buddies or welfare rancher buddies. Thats different then, they're just good old fashioned "capitalists". You actually condone this type of crap and call yourself a "conservative" and a "republican". Thats pretty amusing.
I would vote in 2 seconds flat to end all state sponsored outfitter give-aways and let capitalism truly happen. What do you think the chances are that will ever happen? My guess...about the same time that wildlife conservation is given priority one. In other words...it aint happenin'.
We've all allowed the state agencies to pander to special interest when it comes to game management.
Frankly, we deserve it...the wildlife doesnt...and future hunters dont either. We should have been more influential, we should have been better organized, and we should have done what the outfitters, landowners, SFW, WTO, Don Peay and others have done...looked out for number one. In my case, that would be the wildlife first, average joe Resident and Non-Residents second.
I still fight for those two groups the hardest...wildlife and the average hunter...but I'm in the minority these days.
I've always not cared for SFW and I have NO trouble explaining exactly why. Bigfin pretty much summed it up.
BHR,
like Oak said, if it makes you feel better I belong to the following:
Wyoming Wildlife Federation
B&C Club
P&Y Club
I buy hunting and or fishing licenses in no fewer than 5-6 states per year. I also donate to WY's ACCESS YES program every year...even though most years I dont hunt any ACCESS YES land or HMA's. I write on average 20-30 letters per year to various G&F agencies, commissions, etc. I comment on Travel Plans, oil and gas development, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and dont forget BHR, I've only spent 21 years working in Natural Resource Management. I've also taken enough science, forestry, wildlife, geology, etc. etc. classes to kill the average student.
I also supported the Mule Deer Foundation until I found out that SFW was heavily influenced by no other than...you guessed it Don Peay. The old MDF director and him were both on the same page, tight pals, and SFW has now all but officially taken over the MDF. One of the first things to really turn me off to the MDF once SFW got involved was the "kill everything that kills deer" attitude. Like Oak said, thousands of dollars being spent to "control" coyotes....thats an absolute waste of money. The MDF and SFW are both anti-all predators...wolves, cats, bears, coyotes, etc.
Same with FNAWS...after the latest BS between them and Grand Slam/Ovis...I'll not support either again. Wasting members money on bullshit greed, glory, ego, and money...over all things a frickin' simple phrase "Grand Slam". Talk about a grand slam in the ass of their collective membership and their "supposed" mission of putting sheep on the mountain. What a fargin' joke. Plus, once again...Peay is involved with FNAWS.
Let me be clear, I will not support any group that views predators as nothing more than an animal that needs to be killed for interfering with my chances at a deer, elk, moose, etc.
WILDLIFE conservation is my agenda...first and foremost...even before my own personal hunting agenda and the wildlife I choose to hunt.
Doing what is best for the wildlife should be the NUMBER ONE priority of the states. Unfortunately nearly all of the state wildlife agencies are now pandering to outfitters, guides, hunters, fishermen, landowners, FNAWS, MDF, RMEF, etc. etc.
Somewhere down the list is doing whats really best for wildlife.
BHR, you can squawk all you want about "capitalism"...it rarely exists in anything to do with hunting.
Tell me, under true capitalism...should AK have an outfitter requirement for goats, sheep, and grizzly bears? Should MT outfitters be given guaranteed deer and elk tags to sell to their clients? Should a large portion of NM's elk, deer, antelope, etc. etc. tags be put in a seperate outfitter only pool? Should a NR be forced to hire an outfitter to hunt a wilderness area in Wyoming?
Let me explain something to you...that isnt capitalism dude...thats the state governments subsidizing an industry through regulations regarding public wildlife. Where I come from thats socialism and welfare...something you pretend to hate most of the time. Unless of course its your broke-back outfitter buddies or welfare rancher buddies. Thats different then, they're just good old fashioned "capitalists". You actually condone this type of crap and call yourself a "conservative" and a "republican". Thats pretty amusing.
I would vote in 2 seconds flat to end all state sponsored outfitter give-aways and let capitalism truly happen. What do you think the chances are that will ever happen? My guess...about the same time that wildlife conservation is given priority one. In other words...it aint happenin'.
We've all allowed the state agencies to pander to special interest when it comes to game management.
Frankly, we deserve it...the wildlife doesnt...and future hunters dont either. We should have been more influential, we should have been better organized, and we should have done what the outfitters, landowners, SFW, WTO, Don Peay and others have done...looked out for number one. In my case, that would be the wildlife first, average joe Resident and Non-Residents second.
I still fight for those two groups the hardest...wildlife and the average hunter...but I'm in the minority these days.
wapiti7
New member
Quick 2 cents.
Several years ago, I helped start SFW in new mexico. I was interested in the opportunity to stand up against our polititions and demand that the hunter be heard instead of outfitters and landowners. This lasted only 2 years, as I was not happy with some of the ways that the business was being run. I could see trouble coming. Since then, I only see a group of disorganized followers and an arrogant leader. I believe what started with good intention and theology may have become poisioned. Here in NM, our outfitters get their own 12%. Why? It's discrimination and unconstitutional. But try to fight it....your pockets aren't deep enough.
Bottom line....if we argue like babies and don't stick together.....we'll lose
.......wapiti7
Several years ago, I helped start SFW in new mexico. I was interested in the opportunity to stand up against our polititions and demand that the hunter be heard instead of outfitters and landowners. This lasted only 2 years, as I was not happy with some of the ways that the business was being run. I could see trouble coming. Since then, I only see a group of disorganized followers and an arrogant leader. I believe what started with good intention and theology may have become poisioned. Here in NM, our outfitters get their own 12%. Why? It's discrimination and unconstitutional. But try to fight it....your pockets aren't deep enough.
Bottom line....if we argue like babies and don't stick together.....we'll lose
.......wapiti7
guppie9
New member
A-con
New member
MM general hunting is up, no mention but one thread that's been nuked.
Down on the Elk board, "GlenAz" is trying to stir the pot.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/9076.html
Down on the Elk board, "GlenAz" is trying to stir the pot.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID12/9076.html
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Right now I belong to:
FNAWS
MTFNAWS
B&C Club
NRA
Let my RCFWA membership lapse
I agree that the ego driven piss fight between FNAWS and GSO is bad for both. I agree with some of your views concerning outfitters Buzz and disagree with some. Still think there is a place for good outfitters in hunting.
I don't visit MM like I said before, so my knowledge of SFW and DP is limited. Based on what I read here from BF, Don's being elusive to what his intentions are. Add that to the censorship at MM and you guys have legitamate concerns.
I appreciate Moosie allowing us a forum to have heated, passionate, uncensored debates at HT. Thanks!
FNAWS
MTFNAWS
B&C Club
NRA
Let my RCFWA membership lapse
I agree that the ego driven piss fight between FNAWS and GSO is bad for both. I agree with some of your views concerning outfitters Buzz and disagree with some. Still think there is a place for good outfitters in hunting.
I don't visit MM like I said before, so my knowledge of SFW and DP is limited. Based on what I read here from BF, Don's being elusive to what his intentions are. Add that to the censorship at MM and you guys have legitamate concerns.
I appreciate Moosie allowing us a forum to have heated, passionate, uncensored debates at HT. Thanks!
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Buzz made some damn good posts on 24hr. on this topic...well worth a read.
Not to change the subject here, but I never liked mm too much because of all of the outfitting that is advertised on their front page. Wonder who all of them are associated with?
Next thing is SFW always rubbed me the wrong way. The way that I judge an organization that uses some form of conservation as its front is simple. Show me the land that you are trying preserve, stop from being developed and I will give you a good look. The number one enemy of our favorite hunting opportunities is development on winter range.
SFW's forum was killing predators. Something that strikes a chord with all of us in one way or another. Easy way to get money based on emotion, then turning it into what they want.
Next thing is SFW always rubbed me the wrong way. The way that I judge an organization that uses some form of conservation as its front is simple. Show me the land that you are trying preserve, stop from being developed and I will give you a good look. The number one enemy of our favorite hunting opportunities is development on winter range.
SFW's forum was killing predators. Something that strikes a chord with all of us in one way or another. Easy way to get money based on emotion, then turning it into what they want.
smalls
Well-known member
MM's a friggin joke. The freeflow of idea's is limited to those ideas concurrent with the advertisers and regulators.
Big Fin has eloquently stated his dissertation on the importance of protecting the public trust and how there is a distinct difference between that trust and private property rights. This is another means to commercialize wildlife and incorporate gatekeepers not associated with state regulating agencies.
I am convinced that the "Average Joe Resident" that Buzz, Schmalts, Oak, BF and others are trying to protect will not understand the consequences of the privatization of wildlife until the effects are irreversible. I would like to see an end to landowner brokered tags, stringent limits put on "raffled" tags for non-profits, guaranteed licenses for outfitters, and outfitter required zones.
All ties to WTO aside, SWF sets a scary precedent for future hunting paradigms. It emphasizes limited opportunity trophy hunting (with unlimited opportunity to the elite wealthy) and unjust subsidation/guarantees for those who profit off of wildlife. Of course we would all like to see more game and more "trophy" game, but if means to accomplishing such goals includes excluding those who cannot afford to compete in the wildlife auction it ultimately destroys our hunting heritage.
And I did read Mr. Peay's response to Schmalts (schmalz) where he so liberally through out the dollars he contributes to less fortunate/disabled hunters, to which no one can argue the impact of his charity. But that certainly doesn't absolve him for his dedication to destroy western hunting as we know it. The two issues are undeniably mutually exclusive. That would be like...Exxon Mobil trying to create legislation that would support $5.00 gasoline only to defend itself by saying it provided gas for free to a few less fortunate people.
In the end its responses like Miles' over at 24 that reinforce that united sportsmen will never get anywhere trying to fight those who have a financial interest in wildlife management. The "I don't like the way you walked in the room, so I will not listen to anything you have to say" bickering prevents people from finding common goals and more importantly common enemies. Motivated individuals like BF, that have reasonable aspirations and intelligent arguments, get more done than the 100's of well-intentioned yet overly emotional (and underly poignant) yahoos that are more interested about squabling over petty issues (a la fixed v. floating seasonal dates) than long-term impactful issues.
Big Fin has eloquently stated his dissertation on the importance of protecting the public trust and how there is a distinct difference between that trust and private property rights. This is another means to commercialize wildlife and incorporate gatekeepers not associated with state regulating agencies.
I am convinced that the "Average Joe Resident" that Buzz, Schmalts, Oak, BF and others are trying to protect will not understand the consequences of the privatization of wildlife until the effects are irreversible. I would like to see an end to landowner brokered tags, stringent limits put on "raffled" tags for non-profits, guaranteed licenses for outfitters, and outfitter required zones.
All ties to WTO aside, SWF sets a scary precedent for future hunting paradigms. It emphasizes limited opportunity trophy hunting (with unlimited opportunity to the elite wealthy) and unjust subsidation/guarantees for those who profit off of wildlife. Of course we would all like to see more game and more "trophy" game, but if means to accomplishing such goals includes excluding those who cannot afford to compete in the wildlife auction it ultimately destroys our hunting heritage.
And I did read Mr. Peay's response to Schmalts (schmalz) where he so liberally through out the dollars he contributes to less fortunate/disabled hunters, to which no one can argue the impact of his charity. But that certainly doesn't absolve him for his dedication to destroy western hunting as we know it. The two issues are undeniably mutually exclusive. That would be like...Exxon Mobil trying to create legislation that would support $5.00 gasoline only to defend itself by saying it provided gas for free to a few less fortunate people.
In the end its responses like Miles' over at 24 that reinforce that united sportsmen will never get anywhere trying to fight those who have a financial interest in wildlife management. The "I don't like the way you walked in the room, so I will not listen to anything you have to say" bickering prevents people from finding common goals and more importantly common enemies. Motivated individuals like BF, that have reasonable aspirations and intelligent arguments, get more done than the 100's of well-intentioned yet overly emotional (and underly poignant) yahoos that are more interested about squabling over petty issues (a la fixed v. floating seasonal dates) than long-term impactful issues.
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