Wolf Toleration

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

I think it is interesting that 74% of Montanans tolerate wolves, but an exact same proportion of Montanans (74%), still support lethal control.

As someone who believes it's perfectly fine to hunt and trap wolves, I would wager that the percentage of those who tolerate wolves would be quite lower if not for our ability to manage them. Not because wolves would be running roughshod, but because a state having agency over a species helps a western populace to not look at a species as something the "damn feds" are thrusting upon them. I don't view it as great that only 36% of Montanans approve of trapping them, but mostly think it is a product of an uphill PR battle trapping exists in no matter what, no matter the species.

I think that a big part of the animosity from folks in Oregon and California comes from feeling like they have no agency in the issue. I like to clown on people here, and really across the nation, that every time wolves colonize a new area the residents act like it's a fresh new tragedy that nobody has ever experienced, but I get that part of their trauma is that they feel like they have no power in the situation.

Rural folks would likely feel better if they had some legal tools, but simultaneously we'd likely be farther along, at least in Oregon, if a couple dozen wolves hadn't been poisoned and poached over the last decade.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think it is interesting that 74% of Montanans tolerate wolves, but an exact same proportion of Montanans (74%), still support lethal control.

I don't think everyone has the same definition of tolerate in this case and consequently the poll is as useless as wet toilet paper.

 

[rogerthat]

Ranchers are just a small part of the equation. Id rather not watch wildlife agencies spend a million dollars in 3 months to haze wolves then kill them anyway, when a rancher can do it in 5 minutes for a few bucks. Literally happened here in CA with the cdfw, and they even shot one that wasn't eating cows lol. We can have wolves and eat beef too... that million dollars was better spent on conserving land because habitat destruction destroys all wildlife.

The ranchers I know aren’t good at killing anything besides maybe grasshoppers and Canada thistle once in a while. But that’s what happens when you let your gun ride in the feed truck all year and never check zero.

 

[Lota lota]

Well, put me down for being a little more for nature and a little less for ranching for targets

Who do you think puts food on the table of American families? Are you vegan?

 

[TOGIE]

I would wager that the percentage of those who tolerate wolves would be quite lower if not for our ability to manage them. Not because wolves would be running roughshod, but because a state having agency over a species helps a western populace to not look at a species as something the "damn feds" are thrusting upon them.

This is why, as a big proponent of the "i want to see all the species back on the landscape" movement, if you will, I am not sure I will ever be able to "tolerate" wolves in colorado.

They were thrust on us due to the successful campaigning of anti hunting organizations while our wildlife agency was/is simultaneously seeing an unprecedented shift in political weaponization at the hands of our executive who is listening to the same anti hunting organizations.

Because of that, I can feel confident that wolves will never be managed here. At least never by hunters. Due to that, I am, and probably always will be, an individual that expressly and adamantly will not "tolerate" them.

I sure hope to be wrong though.

 

[SAJ-99]

Who do you think puts food on the table of American families? Are you vegan?

Argentinian ranchers.

Joking obviously but not entirely untrue as of late. And also, it ain’t charity work.

 

[D4570]

What difference, where I stand on the wolf issue?
I don't have to deal with them on a day-to-day basis.
I actively hunt them( never shot one yet) because I can. The people who live with the wolves are the ones who should make the most of the dissensions.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

I think this is a good example of how the loudest voices on the ends of the political spectrum can distort the entire discussion. Wolves are here. Wolves need to be managed. I like having them around, like I like having lions and bears around. The place is a bit dull without them. But I do get tired of the extremes on the topic.

Why do you like having these big predators around ? I do too. Just wanted to hear "why so" from you.

Thank you

 

[Ben Long]

Why do you like having these big predators around ? I do too. Just wanted to hear "why so" from you.

Thank you

Well there's a good question. I guess I don't see hunting as a competition against nature as much as an opportunity to engage with it. I want to experience all of it, not just parts. I have enormous respect for an animal that is smaller than me, yet can pull down a bull elk with its teeth. I find predators like falcons, lions, bears, etc. as exceptionally beautiful animals and particularly exciting because you glimpse them so rarely. I've hunted farms that have lots of deer and elk but no predators bigger than a coyote. That's fine, but it's weak sauce compared to a functioning ecosystem. I also don't believe the doom and gloom around predators. Finally, life is too short for the hate. I don't have time to hate wild animals for doing what wild animals do. I would rather just have fun.

 

[D4570]

S.S.S

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

S.S.S

Assuming you mean shoot, shovel, shut up. I feel like we should rebuke that idea as a hunting community. It completely undermines our claim of being conservationists with high ethical standards.

 

[El Jason]

Assuming you mean shoot, shovel, shut up. I feel like we should rebuke that idea as a hunting community. It completely undermines our claim of being conservationists with high ethical standards.

Not to mention it’s unnecessary unless you’re too dumb to buy a tag.

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

Not to mention it’s unnecessary unless you’re too dumb to buy a tag.

Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and im sure other wolf having states don’t let you hunt them

 

[El Jason]

Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and im sure other wolf having states don’t let you hunt them

The poll was specific to Montana

 

[TX Trophy Hunter]

The poll was specific to Montana

I thought the general conversation in this thread left that behind a while ago

 

[Bonasababy]

The one place this is VERY important IMO.......The UP of Michigan Deer and moose there have a hard enough time without the current unrestricted wolf predation. Conservative estimate of wolf take of deer up there by a VERY pro-wolf Michigan deer biologist was as much as the ENTIRE hunting take. Ouch

I would love to see who this was and what he said...can't imagine any legit bio coming close to making a statement like that?

 

[Bonasababy]

Assuming you mean shoot, shovel, shut up. I feel like we should rebuke that idea as a hunting community. It completely undermines our claim of being conservationists with high ethical standards.

Tired old saying by the folks stupid enough to not realize they are giving lawyers immensely useful ammo to prevent de listing and state management...or take it away.

 

[Hammsolo]

Just because it’s called a study doesn’t mean that it accurately depict the question, hypothesis, or conclusions accurately. It doesn’t mean that the researchers, or anyone reading it perceives any of it equally. Scientific research like this routinely has flaws.

SAJ already mentioned the first flaw. In a thesis, the creation of the question is critical. Is it clearly defined, and/or is it leading for example? The “VAST MAJORITY OF MONTANANS TOLERATE WOLVES,” is too gray. Tolerate is a terrible choice of words.

The Oxford Dictionary’s most fitting definition in this situation for tolerate is “the ability to suffer something, especially pain, difficult conditions, etc. without being harmed.” Tolerate was a very poor choice of words. People view the term drastically differently. Just in this thread it is clear people view it differently.

I’d love to hear people’s personal definitions, and how they’re applying it to this topic.

 

[slatebuilder]

The emotional attachment and crazy, detached from reality view some people and certain groups have about wolves is nuts.

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Substitute "Californians" for Wolves and let me know what the results of that poll are.