Where do you draw the line ?

[Washington Hunter]

Who here on this board would like to see elk, mule deer, whitetail deer, and prongorn (just to name a few) bought, sold, traded, genetically altered, etc. for profit just as if they were livestock? Apparently many don't have a problem with it, as they see it as a "right." A right to do with one's property anything and everything, no matter what the consequences. I assume these same people would have no problem with a landowner dumping toxic waste in the streams on his property, after all it is his property, he pays taxes on it, and he has the constitutional right to do with it as he wishes. Just go ahead and ignore the problem, until it directly affects you. Yeah that makes sense.

 

[Tom]

Washington Hunter, Its not like you imagine it down here, the animals are managed for quality. Hunters alter the genetics pool every time we shoot an animal too, so don't make it out like you think the world will end in toxic waste for that, its been going on since the beginning of hunting. You need to learn more about these things, you won't be so afraid of them. Your thoughts seem like the anti-gun people to me, as an example. They see only that guns kill people, they don't see the side of guns that save people in self defence. I use that example to try and shock you into learning more about animal ownership and management. For example, down here you can hunt a Pere David deer. They went extinct in their homeland, but people here saved them, by owning them. What's your take on that example? Try and think about it, instead of just emotionally reacting. They went extinct, but you can hunt one here, today, if you want. That's pro-animals and pro-hunting, and its only possible because of high fences, eh?

 

[Washington Hunter]

Where are the Pere David deer originally from? If not Texas, then I'd have no interest in hunting them. If I lived in Texas and happened to have them on my own property, sure I'd shoot them for the meat, but I wouldn't go out of my way to go after them. Now that I think about it, I suppose if I had land in Texas, I'd just about be forced into high fencing it to keep all those non-native species out.

 

[Tom]

China, but they haven't had any there for about 100 years, I've read. Most of us people here are non-native, but you're for that, right?

 

[Washington Hunter]

Well Tom it would be different if those Chinese deer were somehow able to use a type of habitat that native species didn't utilize, but since they don't all they are doing is taking up space that native species could be using. But since Texas is 99.9% privately owned I don't really care one way or the other. It's a good thing the species was kept alive though. If the Chinese people didn't breed like rabbits maybe there would still be a place for them there. Like I said, if I had land in Texas I probably would high fence it, just to keep those non-native species out.

 

[elkfarmer]

Erik in AK-that sucks when people tell you to f#$k off on your own land. i have a similair situation here. we have had a bunch of amish buying land up around here, my uncle owned about 1500 acres with alot of it around me. when he died, a bunch of them bought it all and the one that took the section right by me has told me i can't hunt here anyomre. i have hunted here my hole life, and he lets the "dick" farmer up the road hunt where ever he wants cause the guy hires the little amish brood for $3 and hour to work his farm. his land his right though. i hope my business does work. it should be up to me to fail and loose than to have someone tell me i am done though.

Tom- as i am trying to peice this fence operation together. i think stating out i will stay with elk,deer and hoggs. but i might introduce exotics at some time. i wouldn't mind having 2 fence operations, one for north american game and the other for exotics. time will tell. thanks though


A-con-land prices are just going up, but here in new york the is so much state land for people to use it is great. but i find it tough to believe that one day there will be no land for general hunting.mabey in other states, but here in new york i can't see it. in the western states like co. i see that RFW and i don't know how land rights work out there. i can't believe people own 25,000 to 100,000 acres. does the state lease it to them. if that is the case, i can see it out there and that is the states fault.

Elk Gunner- unethical, that is a strong word. if you don't believe in it thats fine that is your opinion, it does not mean it is unethical. and if you are going with the spread of disease thing, put the blame where it should be, Colorado DOW. they blew more smoke up everyone ass for so long, 20 years... and they just finally admit to hit. States never cared of the elk farmers untill the DOW said it was our fault for CWD. and then hell broke loose.

THAT IS "UNETHICAL"

Washinton hunter-"sure I'd shoot them for the meat"

shhhhhhhh: between you and me,,,,, that is hunting

 

[1_pointer]

Elkfarmer- Most of the land in the West is owned by the federal government. Nevada is over 80% federal and Utah is something like 75% federal land for instance. The states own land, but usually not much more than 2 sections (640ac X 2) per township. These lands are to be managed so as to generate money for the school systems. This can include selling the land for development.

 

[Tom]

Elkfarmer, People around here avoid the hogs because they tear up the fences. There are several exotics compatible with native animals to consider or smaller than an elk, to be a better hunt or more hunts for a small place.

Washington Hunter, I don't want the elk refuge animals to starve to death. If they did, it would be a natural death and then we wouldn't need to purchase more habitat for them, eh. We have to take care of them, even if we don't like it, when its artificial, as I see it. I guess, since there's plenty of public land for many of them and there's plenty of private land for many of them, we don't have to draw just one line. I'm glad about that to, diversification of their management seems a strength to me.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Tom, I don't want elk to starve either..it's just that once elk feeding is started, it can't be stopped. They come to rely on it, and then protecting the little winter range that may be left from development is not a high priority like it should be. It's kind of similar to hatchery fish. Without them, maintaining and protecting wild fish habitat would be much more of a priority. But with all the fish the hatcheries are pumping out, many people just don't see where there's a problem.

And elkfarmer...no it wouldn't be hunting, it would be slaughtering. For one thing I wouldn't have a license, and I wouldn't go looking for them. I would simply kill them to make room for native species, and I would of course use the meat. That is not hunting. (I believe we're talking about those Chinese deer)

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-23-2004 11:51: Message edited by: Washington Hunter ]</font>

 

[raybow 1]

The bottom line is:
Is there a chance that these animals could effect the health of the wild population?

Will proper control and management be the leading concern--or will monetary values?

Would a person be willing to loose money for the safety of other animals they do not own?

Weather a person wants to shoot an animal of this nature or not, is simply a matter of personal value. I learned a long time ago, it is not my place or anyone else for that matter, to tell another person that he or she is wrong for thinking the way they do.
People are different and no two think alike. What about freedom of religion?
What about political preference?
What about freedom of choice?
What about freedom of press?
Should I tell someone they are retarded for their beliefs?
Who really would be the retard in this case? That does not mean we have to agree, it simply means we need to respect! If we dislike something that much, then getting it to the polls is an idea.

 

[beardown]

Washington, you cant talk sense to white tail hunters! If you ever watch the outdoors channel you will see the most unethical pile of wannabe hunters in the world! Baiting,ATVs, Food Plots and of course fences! They think a tough day hunting is sitting in a tree above some deer caine in their made for trees lounge chairs! Its pathetic and anybody that supports canned hunts should have the piss slapped out of them. Please if you want to hunt the canned shooting sprees, please dont insult me and every other HUNTER by calling yourself and what you do HUNTING!!!

 

[Washington Hunter]

Beardown, yes I know..but I have a good time trying!

The only decent show I've watched on the outdoor channel is Eastman's Journal.

 

[elkfarmer]

beardown, you really are a tough guy, i was just bustin balls in my other post, but i almost think you believe it. so what is the matter with whitetail hunters, please inform me. and please slap me around a little to just to make sure you get it through my head..

so what is your story, i bet you are the drive around type till you find one of those very skiddish muley bucks big enough to shoot. i am not talking to fast for you am i? i can slow down..
now really, what is your story. lets share some huntin stories, mabey good old washington huntress will join in to, i am sure he has plenty to share.

i am going on a elk bow hunt this year, and seeing how i am just a "whitetail hunt" mabey you guys could give me some pointers.

 

[Washington Hunter]

My advice...chase the biggest bull into the fence corner, and take your shot then. Oh, and make sure it's a fence corner you can drive to.

 

[elkfarmer]

is that so i can get a western type style hunt... mabey beardown can guide me then, i got a truck

 

[beardown]

I doubt you have a truck tough enough to get in the areas I go!

You see we also have like MOUNTAINS, those are big things that you have to hike up. If you want I could guide you to an elk farm atleast you might get something!

As for whats wrong with whitetails....I think they taste great, we hammered one this year and boy it was tough huntin. I had to actually put my beer down long enough to throw it in the back of the truck! The best part is I did'nt even have to bait it in or spend big bucks on a tree lounger!

 

[BHR]

I'm glad I live in Montana where we've got this issue settled. You guy's are giving me a headache.

Paul

 

[elkfarmer]

hey bearfart, congrats but even a blind hooker finds a d@#k every now and then.

so, come on now, tell us a story on how you made such and accomplishment of shooting that deer. were you the driver or the rider?

and isn't it a shame what the state of montana did to those guys, like it or not they were involved in a legal business and then the great Co. DOW came out with there story which all you suckers fell for and put those people pretty much out of business.

how about this, no more useing horses cause it's not fair to them. they didn't shoot it, you did, pack it out yourself. no more driving around on these big ranches glassing deer,elk and pronghorn, get out and walk because it isn't fair. single shots only, if you miss then the animal deserves to get away cause you suck.

all of these examples are pretty lame, but if i came on here and made a statement how unethical it was to hunt like this i would have more people jump down my throat.

Q2, why did your buddy start hunting in a fence? he must have had a good enough reason for himself or he wouldn't have. it was his choice..........

 

[beardown]

I was the driver and it was my nephews first deer! We just came down off the mountain hiking our asses off in 3 feet of snow. I grabbed a beer when we got to the truck and just as we took off my nephew jumps out of the truck before I could come to a complete stop and hammers this doe, it was funny! It was really funny to see what a 300win mag does to a deer at 30 yards!.......As for those poor people that cant elk farm no more GOOD!!! They all probably sub divided their land and retired anyways. Sticking up for them is as pathetic as sticking up for the poor bait fisherman that cant use bait anymore! Its called a challenge, its not supposed to be easy. Thats why they call it huntin not killin! But being a whitetail hunter I'm sure you cant quite grasp that concept!

 

[elkfarmer]

wow, i didn't realize i was talking with such a sportsman of your caliber. that is one heck of a story, you got me beat. i can tell that "ethics" is your middle name. so, you were deer hunting in 3 feet of snow uh?
you are tough, or foolish. i hope that isn't the only deer story you have for us,
you could keep me entertained all day and did i mention how much you impressed me, wow. keep going i might learn something from you.

i have been doing it all wrong, for now on here is my hunting check list

1)truck
2)beer
3)gun)
4)someone that can shoot

am i forgetting anything almighty bearfart