When is enough, enough?

glass eye

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
1,208
Location
El Centro, CA
I've always enjoyed the planning and researching as much as the actual hunt. Sometimes my plans never come to fruition and sometimes they take decades. As a kid in high school I sent a letter ( late 70's ) to Izembek Refuge Alaska requesting info. I didn't make the trip until 2017.
2017-12-09 17.26.01.jpg
 

WapitiBob

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
2,301
Location
Bend, Orygun
"What other resources are out there to do DIY hunts which one can use to zero in on the information needed without getting caught up in the minutiae of multiple state reg books?"

You do it yourself or you pay someone. And paying doesn't mean the info is correct.
 

daltrix99

Active member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
75
I'm 30 and only recently started putting in for out of state, and after seeing the point creep odds for the best units in, say, Utah and Arizona, I had to reassess my expectations. For me this has meant applying for good units, but not the best units. The best Arizona units would be 30+ years for me, if ever, so I am instead applying for units that might be 8-10 years. Yeah, probably not 400" bulls on every hillside, but still plenty of opportunity for a mature bull and great rut action.
 

BigHornRam

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
6,575
Location
"Land of Giant Rams"
I've always enjoyed the planning and researching as much as the actual hunt. Sometimes my plans never come to fruition and sometimes they take decades. As a kid in high school I sent a letter ( late 70's ) to Izembek Refuge Alaska requesting info. I didn't make the trip until 2017.
View attachment 118086
Cool story! Growing up I was the planner for the family trips. I would write to the different agencies to get maps and info for areas we were interested in visiting. Not as convenient as today's internet, but way more fun and rewarding. I still have a box of old maps and literature from those days, and still have a ton of places that I have yet to visit.
 

lynlan1819

New member
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
9
As I have learned more and more about drawing tags in the west- I ask myself, when is enough, enough?

It seems that in almost any state that has preference points, there is point creep. Abysmal or true 0% draw odds for umpteen units due to creep. Is there any solution to this problem? When are some of these states going to change? Or is that not a possible solution?

I understand the viewpoint of someone who has 20+ years of points, but what about everyone else? What about future hunters who have never even yet been born that will never even have the opportunity to use a resource simply due to when they were born? I understand that not every state/unit is this way, but why is it that certain units will have to be forever unattainable to certain demographics of hunters?

Is there any hope for new/younger hunters to ever experience some of the more difficult to draw units/places?

Just some food for thought...
Hunting is a rich mans/sponsered sport,if you want too hunt every year,otherwise you will be hunting about once in every 5 years or more,and that's if you are applying in many states.
 

BuzzH

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Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
10,977
Location
Laramie, WY
Hunting is a rich mans/sponsered sport,if you want too hunt every year,otherwise you will be hunting about once in every 5 years or more,and that's if you are applying in many states.
Totally disagree...I don't see myself ever hunting about once in every 5 years.

Not many States that you cant hunt every year, and you don't have to be rich do it.

If you mean hunting whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want...then I agree.
 

ashersdad

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Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
3,110
Location
Portland, OR
Totally disagree...I don't see myself ever hunting about once in every 5 years.

Not many States that you cant hunt every year, and you don't have to be rich do it.

If you mean hunting whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want...then I agree.
If I could only hunt once every 5 years, I'd be done. My goal is that me and my boys get to hunt every year and so far that hasn't been too hard or too expensive. Granted we're not hunting trophy units every year but we're still hunting. Take this year for example, between the 3 of us we applied for 101 different tags in 8 states and we drew 8 tags (none were trophy unit or hard to draw tags). Had we drawn zero, there are over the counter opportunities that we would have taken advantage of.

I hate the point game as much as anyone but I'm willing to do the research and play the game so that me and my sons have hunting opportunities every year.
 

TimeOnTarget

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Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
1,145
Location
SD
The target population for elk in the Black Hills of SD is 6000-7000 elk. That number is primarily based on social tolerance, (IE-landowner depredation, vehicle collision) and not on habitat capacity. Unfortunaely, I don't see the "pie" getting any bigger in SD. I ask respectfully, what can be done?
I've been fortunate enough to have elk hunted numerous states and While I agree that Hills elk tags are very difficult to draw it is one of the very best hunts I've ever experienced when it comes to elk. I'm afraid if that pie gets bigger the quality of the hunt will get smaller.
 

JLS

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Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
7,341
Location
Somewhere in the basalt rocks
Hunting is a rich mans/sponsered sport,if you want too hunt every year,otherwise you will be hunting about once in every 5 years or more,and that's if you are applying in many states.
Absolutely false. Im as middle class as they come, and I hunt every year. I make priorities, sacrifices, and am realistic in how and what I want to hunt. I can’t remember the last time I didn’t hunt deer and elk because I didn’t have the means to. Maybe in college and that was because beer was a higher priority.
 

VikingsGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
2,828
Location
Twin Cities
Hunting is a rich mans/sponsered sport,if you want too hunt every year,otherwise you will be hunting about once in every 5 years or more,and that's if you are applying in many states.
As already said by many, these schemes cause as many problems as they solve and are a real pain, but I don't buy your premise. Two years ago I decided to get out of my MN deer stand and try western hunting. We started with no points and no clue. With the help of Randy's videos, friendly HuntTalk members, goHunt, and ONX, in those two years my buddy, my son-in-law, myself and my son have pulled 'lope tags without burning points and brought home meat (and great memories) both times. No wait, no years off, no outfitters, no trespass fees -- it can be done (and is done by many on this site).

If you are going for the fun, the experience, the learning, the camaraderie and the meat, the only barrier is you. If you want trophy units and limited species like sheep & bison then you are right - it is a game set up for the well-off and the old-timers -- but thankfully for many of us we don't care about that part of the game.
 

wllm1313

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Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
5,001
Location
Aurora, CO
No wait, no years off, no outfitters, no trespass fees -- it can be done (and is done by many on this site).
I'm certainly not on the level of guys like oak, greenhorn, bambistew, etc etc

But you can search my hunt write ups, I had some cool experiences and killed critters I'm very happy with...I've never been on a hunt took points to draw/one that has worse than 50% draw odds a year. My most expensive hunt was a fly-in hunt in AK and that ran ~$2500, most out of state hunts have been under a grand.
 

LopeHunter

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
2,410
Location
MO-->CA-->NW-->AZ&NW
Totally disagree...I don't see myself ever hunting about once in every 5 years.

Not many States that you cant hunt every year, and you don't have to be rich do it.

If you mean hunting whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want...then I agree.
These are wise words. You can rifle hunt WY every year for pronghorn bucks and mule deer and/or whitetail bucks. As a non-resident! You can archery hunt Coues whitetail in AZ every January. You can hunt CO for bull elk every year. Most years can hunt MT for bull elk and buck deer. You can likely draw more tags than can find the time to hunt all of them. Quality of the herd, ease of land access, harvest rates, etc. will have a few or lots of warts.

I dislike, no is actually hate, every point system. I dislike every set aside whether for landowners or residents or kids or veterans or old people or disabled or terminally ill. Yes, I have a heart of coal. I do support special rules for the disabled once they have a tag in hand.

In my dream world:
1) Everyone has the same chance for any tag in any year whether resident or non-resident.
2) You get 2 choices for a species and both are considered which allows you to swing for the fences with 1st choice and go for a more likely draw tag with 2nd choice or can go for both choices for more likely draw tags.
3) Non-residents pay 10x for tags compared to residents.
4) If you draw a tag, you can't apply for that species for the number of years as determined by total number of applicants for the tag you drew divided by total number of tags. Say you drew a tag that had 100 tags and 200 applicants then you sit out two years of draws for that species. Say you drew a tag that had 10 tags and 200 applicants then you sit out 20 years of draws for that species. This will allow people that want to hunt often to avoid the high demand tags so they are not sitting out as long when draw a tag. No difference in years wait whether hunt the tag or not or harvest or not. You draw, you wait.
5) Since have these powers, no more shed antler collecting. People are harassing our herds and impacting the health of pregnant does and cows. Find a new hobby and stop killing what would be fawns in a few more weeks.

Rant over. Now, go get a tag or two and go hunting.
 

Aussie_hunter_JD

Active member
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
419
Location
Australia
In the past I would apply in multiple states for myself and my 2 kids. I enjoyed spending hours researching and then playing the odds. After my kids grew up and left home I started eliminating states and brought it down to just my home state CA and next door AZ where I had too many points that I couldn't just throw away. In AZ I've drawn on antelope and mule deer in 13b so I no longer apply for those. I have 25 turkey points and one day I have to draw a Gould's tag. After that I'll just apply for easy draw Merriam's and a 7 point draw elk tag.

My focus has been on hunting where I can plan OTC - DIY hunts. That is why I'm always going to Alaska, Hawaii, New Zealand.
Inexpensive hunts if you plan it right and don't need a mint on your pillow.
I wish Alaska was inexpensive for me! Anyway, you should add Australia to your list.
 

ElkFever2

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
1,143
Location
Iowa
As I have learned more and more about drawing tags in the west- I ask myself, when is enough, enough?

It seems that in almost any state that has preference points, there is point creep. Abysmal or true 0% draw odds for umpteen units due to creep. Is there any solution to this problem? When are some of these states going to change? Or is that not a possible solution?

I understand the viewpoint of someone who has 20+ years of points, but what about everyone else? What about future hunters who have never even yet been born that will never even have the opportunity to use a resource simply due to when they were born? I understand that not every state/unit is this way, but why is it that certain units will have to be forever unattainable to certain demographics of hunters?

Is there any hope for new/younger hunters to ever experience some of the more difficult to draw units/places?

Just some food for thought...
If all you look at are the most desirable hunts, opportunity looks abysmal. But take all those off the table and you're left with the ability to hunt mature whitetails, antelope, bear, and elk every year on OTC or very few points. So what's the problem?
 
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