US and Israel attack Iran

[D_Walt]

For all the wise internet sages that think this action in Iran is doomed to failure/terrible idea/start of WW3; what would you have done instead? Ignore Itan entirely? Doubled down on sanctions and try to bankrupt them (unsuccessfully) for another 50 years? Wait for them to have another 100k drones to send out? Wait until they fully develop nuclear capability and embrace the “stability” that would bring the world? Hope the Ayatollah suddenly becomes super chill? What would you have done?

 

[atlas]

what about the “D” Barbies… Pelosi, Clinton, Waters …

they suck too

 

[brymoore]

For all the wise internet sages that think this action in Iran is doomed to failure/terrible idea/start of WW3; what would you have done instead? Ignore Itan entirely? Doubled down on sanctions and try to bankrupt them (unsuccessfully) for another 50 years? Wait for them to have another 100k drones to send out? Wait until they fully develop nuclear capability and embrace the “stability” that would bring the world? Hope the Ayatollah suddenly becomes super chill? What would you have done?

Mind our own business.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, et al could have combined and taken care of this issue. Instead, they talked the U.S. into doing the dirty work.

 

[Redmt]

For all the wise internet sages that think this action in Iran is doomed to failure/terrible idea/start of WW3; what would you have done instead? Ignore Itan entirely? Doubled down on sanctions and try to bankrupt them (unsuccessfully) for another 50 years? Wait for them to have another 100k drones to send out? Wait until they fully develop nuclear capability and embrace the “stability” that would bring the world? Hope the Ayatollah suddenly becomes super chill? What would you have done?

The Assahola needed to be stopped at all costs along with all his other disciples. My .02 for heading up the attack, I think I would have gone after ALL the missile silos and the bomb building installations as well as the military airfields all at the same time. As I understand it Iran had retaliatory missiles in the air almost instantly. They were definitely programmed, ready and waiting for someone to push the button.

 

[Handlebar]

Mind our own business.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, et al could have combined and taken care of this issue. Instead, they talked the U.S. into doing the dirty work.

Not trying to be a gotcha but was your opinion on the Ukraine situation similar? The Ukraine thread on this forum was a long one too and I remember many members advocating for us to be involved (not boots on the ground) I was of the opinion that it was Europe's back yard and they should handle it themselves. Your above comment is the first I have seen here that expresses that opinion. I cannot say that I completely disagree with you although I can see the nuances of this different scenario.
Although I find it difficult that the optics would have allowed SA or any other Muslim country to team up with Israel. Us joining them may have been a calculation that if we were involved it may provide containment for this blowing into a much larger regional conflict. Pure speculation on my part. . There has been some speculation that Israel was going anyway and that they were considering tactical nuclear, I dont know how faith I put into that reporting but it is out there.

 

[406dn]

Not trying to be a gotcha but was your opinion on the Ukraine situation similar? The Ukraine thread on this forum was a long one too and I remember many members advocating for us to be involved (not boots on the ground) I was of the opinion that it was Europe's back yard and they should handle it themselves. Your above comment is the first I have seen here that expresses that opinion. I cannot say that I completely disagree with you although I can see the nuances of this different scenario.
Although I find it difficult that the optics would have allowed SA or any other Muslim country to team up with Israel. Us joining them may have been a calculation that if we were involved it may provide containment for this blowing into a much larger regional conflict. Pure speculation on my part. . There has been some speculation that Israel was going anyway and that they were considering tactical nuclear, I dont know how faith I put into that reporting but it is out there.

One significant difference is that we have sold sophisticated military hardware to the Saudis, Israel, UAE, etc over the years. Presumably, that was for their defense against Iran.

In the Ukraine war, there has not been a time where there was a reasonable prospect we would have our troops on the ground. In Iran, presently, it has not been ruled out. Trump is saying that he has to be agreeable to any new government in Iran. Now, I see he is saying only unconditional surrender will end the fighting. There is only one way to make that happen. It takes an armed military presence in that country, to make the situation stable. That is the road we are on.

 

[Handlebar]

One significant difference is that we have sold sophisticated military hardware to the Saudis, Israel, UAE, etc over the years. Presumably, that was for their defense against Iran.

In the Ukraine war, there has not been a time where there was a reasonable prospect we would have our troops on the ground. In Iran, presently, it has not been ruled out. Trump is saying that he has to be agreeable to any new government in Iran. Now, I see he is saying only unconditional surrender will end the fighting. There is only one way to make that happen. It takes an armed military presence in that country, to make the situation stable. That is the road we are on.

I agree with you on everything except, I don't think he will put boots on the ground. Alot of MAGA is not happy with the bombing to begin with unless there is a geological shift in attitudes I just don't see how. He has 60 days to run the air campaign.

 

[PoleX]

On this point of politics and people in general, society has turned through the circle to the point almost everything is judged to find the negatives. I'll leave it that.

Outside of politics, as to Iran, since 1979, Beirut all the through GWOT they have singlehandedly sewn terror and death. Given the historical aspect of Persian culture, they have far more to give on a positive note if they can change back to that culture. This is an opportunity for this.

Context, a over 40 year family friend fled Iran before the Shah went down. Civil Engineer. He couldn't save all of his family unfortunately. The last multitude of decades he deeply understands the fear that the normal population feels.

I hate war and most of my military friends do as well. From WW2 to present the warriors I know dislike it as well. But there are evils within this world.

From a geopolitical chess game standpoint it was likely as good of a time as any to make the move. But selling the public (myself included) on it is hard, but I don’t think the Trump admin really cares about that. If it works out the upside will speak for itself.

Worst case they become the next Syria. Iran is either a war torn shithole or a western friendly country after this and it becomes a huge win for the US and a huge loss for China and Russia. Much better outcome then letting them become the next North Korea except with a radical religious bent.

All can be true; the timing makes sense, war sucks, gas prices will go up. Just kind of depends on what viewpoint you want to focus on.

 

[rjthehunter]

It's funny that no matter what Trump did in this situation, he'll be hated by the other side of the aisle. If he didn't put a stop to Iran's nuclear program, in ~5 years when they attacked the US, he would be blamed for not stopping them when he had the chance.

I wouldn't suggest sitting idle while Iran - the "death to America" country - gears up with nukes. Iran has had their sights set on the US since 1979 during the Islamic Revolution.

It is far better to act now vs waiting until something tragic happens on US soil. We've waited for bad things to happen in the past, vs acting on the offense, like Pearl Harbor. I'd rather be proactive and prevent a problem then wait for it to explode.

 

[RidgeRunner76]

From a geopolitical chess game standpoint it was likely as good of a time as any to make the move. But selling the public (myself included) on it is hard, but I don’t think the Trump admin really cares about that. If it works out the upside will speak for itself.

Worst case they become the next Syria. Iran is either a war torn shithole or a western friendly country after this and it becomes a huge win for the US and a huge loss for China and Russia. Much better outcome then letting them become the next North Korea except with a radical religious bent.

All can be true; the timing makes sense, war sucks, gas prices will go up. Just kind of depends on what viewpoint you want to focus on.

You're not wrong. My best mentors were those that saw hell for somebody else.

 

[brymoore]

Not trying to be a gotcha but was your opinion on the Ukraine situation similar? The Ukraine thread on this forum was a long one too and I remember many members advocating for us to be involved (not boots on the ground) I was of the opinion that it was Europe's back yard and they should handle it themselves. Your above comment is the first I have seen here that expresses that opinion. I cannot say that I completely disagree with you although I can see the nuances of this different scenario.
Although I find it difficult that the optics would have allowed SA or any other Muslim country to team up with Israel. Us joining them may have been a calculation that if we were involved it may provide containment for this blowing into a much larger regional conflict. Pure speculation on my part. . There has been some speculation that Israel was going anyway and that they were considering tactical nuclear, I dont know how faith I put into that reporting but it is out there.

U.S. hasn’t sent troops or been involved in any military actions in Ukraine to my knowledge. I believe intelligence information has been provided.

U.S. has sold/given military weapons to Ukraine. I’m good with that. I didn’t say U.S. can’t pick a side, we don’t need to do everyone’s dirty work. Similar to WWII until the US was attacked and WAR was declared.

 

[noharleyyet]

they suck too

For decades...

 

[PoleX]

You're not wrong. My best mentors were those that saw hell for somebody else.

Mine too

 

[RidgeRunner76]

Mine too

I dunno about you, but alot of people tell me I'm too laid back. I'm not, but I've pushed through entirely too many ugly things to get twisted. Never a Problem, only Solutions. Use your Team and continue to chase Learning.

 

[brymoore]

It's funny that no matter what Trump did in this situation, he'll be hated by the other side of the aisle. If he didn't put a stop to Iran's nuclear program, in ~5 years when they attacked the US, he would be blamed for not stopping them when he had the chance.

I wouldn't suggest sitting idle while Iran - the "death to America" country - gears up with nukes. Iran has had their sights set on the US since 1979 during the Islamic Revolution.

It is far better to act now vs waiting until something tragic happens on US soil. "Minding our own business" is how 9/11 came about. I'd rather be proactive and prevent a problem then wait for it to explode.

Iran has been singing death to America my entire life. So have a lot of other countries. No real actions taken except for Saudis… remember 9/11?

If Iran became nuclear, we’d know in about 48 hours after Israel was nuked.

Iran is first a Middle East countries issue then Europe then US. Let the neighboring countries send in troops.

By the way, I’m not from the other side. I happen to recognize bad decisions. Government gets better the more local it is. My governor just announced running for his third republican term and has my support. I’ll tell him when I see him again in the next few weeks.

 

[406dn]

I agree with you on everything except, I don't think he will put boots on the ground. Alot of MAGA is not happy with the bombing to begin with unless there is a geological shift in attitudes I just don't see how. He has 60 days to run the air campaign.

We could bomb them endlessly, but to control the country, and its government, it takes an enforcement presence. Israel bombed the shit out of Gaza. They still needed to go in with troops, to gain any real control.

 

[Handlebar]

U.S. hasn’t sent troops or been involved in any military actions in Ukraine to my knowledge. I believe intelligence information has been provided.

U.S. has sold/given military weapons to Ukraine. I’m good with that. I didn’t say U.S. can’t pick a side, we don’t need to do everyone’s dirty work. Similar to WWII until the US was attacked and WAR was declared.

this what I was actually referring too

 

[PoleX]

If Iran became nuclear, we’d know in about 48 hours after Israel was nuked.

Would you have been on board to deal with the then? Seems like having a functional ally in Israel vs waiting for them to be crippled makes a lot more sense.

Also, would you agree the regime is as weak as it’s been in recent history? 2 years ago it’s likely unthinkable to attack. If we can’t topple them now, what’s the alternative in your opinion?

Russia is occupied with Ukraine. China is in the process of reforming their entire military leadership. 12 day war. It’s been a complete dismantling of their regional proxies, Hamas, hezbollah, the Houthis, the fall of Assad in Syria, etc etc etc. It seems like a pretty reasonable alignment of the stars for this to happen now.

 

[SAJ-99]

For all the wise internet sages that think this action in Iran is doomed to failure/terrible idea/start of WW3; what would you have done instead? Ignore Itan entirely? Doubled down on sanctions and try to bankrupt them (unsuccessfully) for another 50 years? Wait for them to have another 100k drones to send out? Wait until they fully develop nuclear capability and embrace the “stability” that would bring the world? Hope the Ayatollah suddenly becomes super chill? What would you have done?

In February 2026? Are we assuming the other bad decisions that led us up to this point are still in place or do we get to play Monday morning QB and question those too?

Two weeks ago the situation was the same as it had been for decades. Not good, but manageable. We can try to guess at how far Iran was from an operational nuclear weapon, but that is completely unknown. The "success" in Venezuela seemed to perk our interest in targeting leaders so we thought the next logical step would be assassination. When we (lumping Israel and US together here) learned of the leadership meeting it apparently seemed like a great chance at our new strategy. Boom!. It took 48 hours to learn that the guys we hoped would take over as more Western-friendly leaders were at the meeting and killed in the attack. OK, so that plan just goes into the toilet. Plan B? Not sure there is one other than spread BS and declare progress toward a perfect ending. We just keep throwing $1m interceptor missiles at $50,000 drones and talking tough to the press. As a side benefit, we have knee capped the global economy by constraining the core supply of energy by 20%.

The answer to your question is obvious and the same as it has been for 45 years. Do nothing. If there are 20 possible endings to this story, 19 of them are bad. In a power vacuum, the nice guys never assume control. Highest probability is younger, more extreme leadership that learns to promise one thing and do the opposite out of sight.

If you want the one positive to be reality, it's going to take more than what we are doing. The real question is who is going to support finishing the job with troops? In for a penny, in for a pound?

 

[brymoore]

Would you have been on board to deal with the then? Seems like having a functional ally in Israel vs waiting for them to be crippled makes a lot more sense.

Also, would you agree the regime is as weak as it’s been in recent history? 2 years ago it’s likely unthinkable to attack. If we can’t topple them now, what’s the alternative in your opinion?

Russia is occupied with Ukraine. China is in the process of reforming their entire military leadership. 12 day war. It’s been a complete dismantling of their regional proxies, Hamas, hezbollah, the Houthis, the fall of Assad in Syria, etc etc etc. It seems like a pretty reasonable alignment of the stars for this to happen now.

Why can’t Israel take care of its Iran problem?

The U.S. could have taken Iran at anytime past Reagan if it wasn’t constrained by politicians like Vietnam or Carter. A declaration of war would help the politician situation.

U.S. already has the largest military complex by far in the world. None of the countries mentioned want to fight the U.S. They’re rattling its swords in a hope for the U.S. to stay away.

We can now patiently wait for suicidal people to attack on U.S. soil because of the leadership kills in Iran. Gun shootings, assignations or dirty bombs are on the table.