US and Israel attack Iran

[Rainer]

The Canadians would know they were there for one of them. Or did you forget about Canada's largest deployment in 50 years?

See that's what Allies did when Article 5 was used after 9/11. That was before newer administrations decided it was a smart idea to stab almost all their allies in the back then wonder why no one likes them.

 

[SAJ-99]

I do believe it's not entirely fair to point solely to the cost of say, a Patriot, versus an Iranian drone or ballistic missile.

The better comparison is the cost of the interceptor versus the potential cost of lost lives and military hardware.

Fair. But remains true that Iran can continue at their rate of aggression a lot cheaper than we can defend against it.

 

[TOGIE]

Fair. But remains true that Iran can continue at their rate of aggression a lot cheaper than we can defend against it.

I mean, yes I'd think on some levels but I still don't see an apples to apples comparison.

Us and Gulf state allies aren't firing 4 million dollar patriots at every shahed drone that goes up in the air. We have other methods to try to take out drones. Patriots are certainlyare best used on ballistic missiles where the cost differential isn't all that much - though i've seen/read that on average 2-3 patriots are fired per ballistic missile.

And if we figure in the GDP and military budgets of each country the financial dents might not statistically all that different on a ratio basis if you run the numbers. On top of that Iranian ability to launch things goes down by the hour.

I'm no apologist of this war by any means. But on some levels, regardless of anything, what's happening now is what's happening and we need to deal with it; that means firing off lots of patriots. So, it is what it is.

 

[Gulf of America]

I mean, yes I'd think on some levels but I still don't see an apples to apples comparison.

Us and Gulf state allies aren't firing 4 million dollar patriots at every shahed drone that goes up in the air. We have other methods to try to take out drones. Patriots are certainlyare best used on ballistic missiles where the cost differential isn't all that much - though i've seen/read that on average 2-3 patriots are fired per ballistic missile.

And if we figure in the GDP and military budgets of each country the financial dents might not statistically all that different on a ratio basis if you run the numbers. On top of that Iranian ability to launch things goes down by the hour.

I'm no apologist of this war by any means. But on some levels, regardless of anything, what's happening now is what's happening and we need to deal with it; that means firing off lots of patriots. So, it is what it is.

As much as the money being spent is or isn't an issue, the actual supply of patriot missiles gets to be a concern the longer this goes on. Does the US want to use our entire stockpile of defensive weapons on this? The US stockpile is estimated at about 1600 and we produce 700 a year. Iran is estimated to have 2500+ ballistic missiles and tens of thousands of drones.

 

[SAJ-99]

I mean, yes I'd think on some levels but I still don't see an apples to apples comparison.

Us and Gulf state allies aren't firing 4 million dollar patriots at every shahed drone that goes up in the air. We have other methods to try to take out drones. Patriots are certainlyare best used on ballistic missiles where the cost differential isn't all that much - though i've seen/read that on average 2-3 patriots are fired per ballistic missile.

And if we figure in the GDP and military budgets of each country the financial dents might not statistically all that different on a ratio basis if you run the numbers. On top of that Iranian ability to launch things goes down by the hour.

I'm no apologist of this war by any means. But on some levels, regardless of anything, what's happening now is what's happening and we need to deal with it; that means firing off lots of patriots. So, it is what it is.

Yes, every partriot used to protect a US base and US lives is worth it. We just don't have enough to protect every oil tanker and every soft target. You have to figure Iran is mining the gulf. It will take money to get rid of those too. The $ cost of this is going to be much higher than we realize, even if it stopped tomorrow. The real problem is there doesn't seem to be the initial concepts of a plan to stop it.

 

[TOGIE]

As much as the money being spent is or isn't an issue, the actual supply of patriot missiles gets to be a concern the longer this goes on. Does the US want to use our entire stockpile of defensive weapons on this? The US stockpile is estimated at about 1600 and we produce 700 a year. Iran is estimated to have 2500+ ballistic missiles and tens of thousands of drones.

Of course, a huge concern. One I personally have.

However, interesting article by WSJ yesterday:

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-underground-missiles-59b3492c?mod=hp_lead_pos8

I'm sure only the Pentagon and Mossad could put numbers to this, but I'm guessing a fairly significant amount of Iranian ballistic missiles are functionally KIA as a result of Israeli and US bombing and probably even a non insignificant number of their drones. Does that erase the concern? Probably not entirely. But, it's probably reasonable to assume there is a point where the two lines will eventually intersect and invert where our ability to intercept is way greater than Iranian ability to launch. I sure feel like that is the primary goal of much of the Israeli and US airpower.

But yes, I too am not a fan of depleting significant stockpiles of defensive munitions on this.

 

[Rainer]

So as of this morning almost all the gulf nations have almost run out of their Thaad, Patriot and Aster 30 munitions. Israel apparently is also running out of munitions for their Iron Dome. I bet by Monday they're run out, leaving the oil and gas fields wide open.

 

[NR_Hunter]

Nepotism, party line voting, cabinet and admin filled with yes men instead of competency.

Kristi Noem is gone now, so I think we found the level of incompetency that loyalty can no longer make up for.

 

[NR_Hunter]

So as of this morning almost all the gulf nations have almost run out of their Thaad, Patriot and Aster 30 munitions. Israel apparently is also running out of munitions for their Iron Dome. I bet by Monday they're run out, leaving the oil and gas fields wide open.

There will be Ukrainians in the Gulf showing us how to use FPV interceptor drones on Shaheeds real soon. Bet that.

 

[SAJ-99]

Kristi Noem is gone now, so I think we found the level of incompetency that loyalty can no longer make up for.

The news season of the Apprentice 2.0!

 

[Bonasababy]

He’s off that fish scale every time I see him, and he’s still probably the most sober of the bunch.

How did we go from Jim Mattis to Sucksesh? They aren’t even in the same universe in terms of competency.

Said it many times in various threads...but the adults in the room Trump had in his first presidency are all gone. If you tell him no or disagree with what he wants to do...rather than being a valued voice before decisions...your a$$ gets canned.

 

[BigHornRam]

Kristi Noem is gone now, so I think we found the level of incompetency that loyalty can no longer make up for.

 

[Bonasababy]

Kristi Noem is gone now, so I think we found the level of incompetency that loyalty can no longer make up for.

One Barbie down, two Barbies to go....

 

[NR_Hunter]

That’s honestly disgusting. The swampiest of swamp creatures.

She’s 54 years old. She’s been around forever. Everybody knew what they were getting when she was hired for the job. They’re just as responsible for that level of fraud as she is.

 

[howl]

Saw a congressman espouse the theory that the MIC needs about $50B per year to keep going. That's supposedly what our bill comes to whether they're focused on Afghanistan or Ukraine or Iran or ..... I think Turkey's up next. The big problem is they always have to find something new after the last winds down. Israel is embedded in the MIC and is never at a loss for finding somewhere to create a new piece of Hell. That's leadership!

 

[BigHornRam]

That’s honestly disgusting. The swampiest of swamp creatures.

She’s 54 years old. She’s been around forever. Everybody knew what they were getting when she was hired for the job. They’re just as responsible for that level of fraud as she is.

She's swampy. She's gone. We dodged a bullet with your Governor. He's even swampier. His testimony was a comedy show.

 

[NR_Hunter]

She's swampy. She's gone. We dodged a bullet with your Governor. He's even swampier. His testimony was a comedy show.

At least Tim Walz has the decency to just go away on his own.

 

[Straight Arrow]

She's swampy. She's gone. We dodged a bullet with your Governor. He's even swampier. His testimony was a comedy show.

Now HTers are flinging swampy barbs at one another.

 

[PoleX]

That was the craziest thing I have watched in 6 months. And I watch Trump do news conferences.

I get the sense that this guy is probably a shill for the CCP, but time will tell.

He also fails to mention the fact that China does not have an expeditionary army. They have no ability to project power beyond the first island chain. They have no basing in the Middle East. The idea that they have the ability to intervene in the Middle East is just not factual.

 

[Redmt]

What does "swampy" mean? I'm thinking alligators and Cypress trees.