Thriving elk, struggling deer: Coincidence? New research suggests not

[huntin24/7]

It makes it pretty easy for fish and game agencies to pass these types of management(slaughter) when probably 75% of guys buying tags just want more tags with complete disregard or ignorance of conservation. I get that I sound like a broken record, but I can’t understand why so many hunters need a buck tag every year to be happy. Whether it’s for overall herd health or to let a few animals grow to maturity, it seems like a pretty small sacrifice to find something else to hunt some years like cow elk in overpopulated units, upland birds, waterfowl, you name it.

 

[TheTone]

That’s not my opinion at all. Do you think this science looks strong and convincing? It didn’t appear that way to me whatsoever. That was all I was saying

Edit: I’m all for slaughtering the timber carp if it really will help the mule deer.

I’ll be honest i haven’t read it; just the general vibe of this whole thread is that the study by a well respected PhD is bad because it might effect hunting opportunities for something people like hunting. Your post was just the first I noticed that mentioned “science”

 

[DFS]

Yeah let’s make sure we manage wildlife with science unless of course we don’t like it

If you don’t think game agencies are chomping at the bit for a weak study like this I’m not sure what to tell you. In my conversations with the director pleading to not shoot the last public land muley it always circled back to elk and how when their made up population objectives are too high elk tags need to go general. He was citing a weak study from Utah. Buckle up we will burn everything to the ground in the name of science.

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah let’s make sure we manage wildlife with science unless of course we don’t like it

Yeah, unfinished science at that...let's jump to conclusions and start hammerin'.

We had a chance to send Kevorkian your way, I wanted to send him packing but got out voted. Many are regretting that decision.

On the plus side, we can continue to skim the best animals in Wyoming every year to keep funding this research...

 

[williaada]

Yeah, unfinished science at that...let's jump to conclusions and start hammerin'.

We had a chance to send Kevorkian your way, I wanted to send him packing but got out voted. Many are regretting that decision.

On the plus side, we can continue to skim the best animals in Wyoming every year to keep funding this research...

Buzz who are you referring to as Kevorkian…. I thought the guy died of natural causes and not someone helping die sooner than planned.

 

[DFS]

That’s not my opinion at all. Do you think this science looks strong and convincing? It didn’t appear that way to me whatsoever. That was all I was saying

Edit: I’m all for slaughtering the timber carp if it really will help the mule deer.

Working in the healthcare industry for close to 15 years I have taken away science is always changing, and “science” and money go hand in hand. Game agencies will continue to find what they want to justify what they want to do. Just like anyone.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz who are you referring to as Kevorkian…. I thought the guy died of natural causes and not someone helping die sooner than planned.

If you're an elk, whitetail, pronghorn, or bighorn, you should be concerned.

 

[rogerthat]

Working in the healthcare industry for close to 15 years I have taken away science is always changing, and “science” and money go hand in hand. Game agencies will continue to find what they want to justify what they want to do. Just like anyone.

I don’t share your view of science. There is unbiased science out there. The healthcare industry does some pretty amazing stuff. Heart surgeries, brain surgeries, etc. I believe in peer reviewed science and using our brains. If there is a problem with the “science”, it will become evident with time. Not everything is a hidden agenda or conspiracy. That being said science shouldn’t be used to jump to conclusions

 

[BuzzH]

Game management inspiration these days in Wyoming.

Been going on in Montana for a couple decades too.

 

[Fremont15]

We need to do whatever we can to keep Wyoming elk thriving! Killing off large numbers of elk will just hurt the best thing we have going here in Wyoming.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I don’t share your view of science. There is unbiased science out there. The healthcare industry does some pretty amazing stuff. Heart surgeries, brain surgeries, etc. I believe in peer reviewed science and using our brains. If there is a problem with the “science”, it will become evident with time. Not everything is a hidden agenda or conspiracy. That being said science shouldn’t be used to jump to conclusions

Science should be cautious in that there should be a control group nearby. In my mind, it would be hard to do this right without taking 5+ years to look at it.

 

[longbow51]

I don’t share your view of science. There is unbiased science out there. The healthcare industry does some pretty amazing stuff. Heart surgeries, brain surgeries, etc. I believe in peer reviewed science and using our brains. If there is a problem with the “science”, it will become evident with time. Not everything is a hidden agenda or conspiracy. That being said science shouldn’t be used to jump to conclusions

It is true that in things physical, like MRIs, endoscopy, and surgeries we are better than ever. OTOH, it is also true that drugs are often marketed prematurely and perhaps today's clinicians are not taught to be as skeptical ("believe the science") over claims for new drugs as they once were. And whoever thought it was OK to allow pharms (it was the FDA actually) to advertise on TV was crazy.

In things more nebulous, like climate change cause and solutions it seems to almost always be follow the money.

Drill for natural gas with American rednecks = OMG, planetary destruction

Mine for minerals with child slaves for batteries = pure as the driven snow.

So, yes, peer reviewed science will eventually produce something resembling fact if, and these are big ifs, the data isn't skewed by improperly eliminating data which doesn't "fit", or if offering an opposing view leads to no grants and hence no job.

In recent history "conspiracy theorists" have better batting averages than "experts".

 

[williaada]

If you're an elk, whitetail, pronghorn, or bighorn, you should be concerned.

Buzz, last year out in Casper, there were a few people who were advocating to only kill doe mule deer because there were too many. Seem counter intuitive to increasing the mule deer number.

 

[TheTone]

We need to do whatever we can to keep Wyoming elk thriving! Killing off large numbers of elk will just hurt the best thing we have going here in Wyoming.

aren’t you already allowed to shoot multiple elk a year in Wyoming?