The Bundys are baa-aaack...

[Irrelevant]

I also find it rather amazing someone who professes to have such intimate knowledge of the U.S. Constitution, yet continue to state falsehoods as it pertains to criminal law and procedure.

Com'on don't they all? I highly doubt you're amazed.

 

[azelkhntr]

It doesn't matter who fired first and/or only. If you believe it was an ambush, your prerogative. However, the investigation determined the officers involved followed all federal case law relevant to use of lethal force.

Your continued arguments are disingenuous. On one hand you want Randy to drop OnX over a violation by one of OnX's stockholders, yet you continue to defend someone who helped in the forcible take of a federal work facility, made overt threats towards law enforcement, attempted to run a roadblock, and then reached for his pockets where he had a handgun.

Well it does matter whom fired first, and it was an ambush because you can see they had a man hidden in the trees who was the shooter that killed LF by 3 slugs in the back as the autopsy verifies. The first 2 shots were fired indiscriminately into the vehicle they were in, an unforgivable provocation since no one was pointing any weapons at them at the time. Yes the investigation; once again LEOs investigating themselves and found they did nothing wrong. They were surrounded on a lonely snow covered stretch of road with nowhere to go and no pressing need to use deadly force. They weren't going anywhere but I see your married to your view and I mine. So be it.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Well it does matter whom fired first, and it was an ambush because you can see they had a man hidden in the trees who was the shooter that killed LF by 3 slugs in the back as the autopsy verifies. The first 2 shots were fired indiscriminately into the vehicle they were in, an unforgivable provocation since no one was pointing any weapons at them at the time. Yes the investigation; once again LEOs investigating themselves and found they did nothing wrong. They were surrounded on a lonely snow covered stretch of road with nowhere to go and no pressing need to use deadly force. They weren't going anywhere but I see your married to your view and I mine. So be it.

Your understanding of use of force and the case law that governs it is skewed. If you don't think its lawful for LEOs to fire at a vehicle that is approaching them at a high rate of speed, then you are highly mistaken. Lethal force does not necessitate a firearm is even possessed by the suspect. Nor does it necessitate the suspect presents a firearm and/or fires first at the LEOs.

Kind of odd you think a DOJ investigation of the Clintons is legitimate, but their investigation of this shooting is not. Whatever.

 

[Dave N]

Won't be long now...

 

[azelkhntr]

Your understanding of use of force and the case law that governs it is skewed. If you don't think its lawful for LEOs to fire at a vehicle that is approaching them at a high rate of speed, then you are highly mistaken. Lethal force does not necessitate a firearm is even possessed by the suspect. Nor does it necessitate the suspect presents a firearm and/or fires first at the LEOs.

Kind of odd you think a DOJ investigation of the Clintons is legitimate, but their investigation of this shooting is not. Whatever.

Well it was the Obama admin right? The one that corrupted the DOJ< FBI, CIA, NSA,, IRS etal so you'll certainly forgive my skepticism.

 

[Irrelevant]

Well it does matter whom fired first, and it was an ambush because you can see they had a man hidden in the trees who was the shooter that killed LF by 3 slugs in the back as the autopsy verifies. The first 2 shots were fired indiscriminately into the vehicle they were in, an unforgivable provocation since no one was pointing any weapons at them at the time. Yes the investigation; once again LEOs investigating themselves and found they did nothing wrong. They were surrounded on a lonely snow covered stretch of road with nowhere to go and no pressing need to use deadly force. They weren't going anywhere but I see your married to your view and I mine. So be it.

I have no idea why it took so long to for one of them to die, and how in the end it was only one. They conducted an armed takeover of federal property. I was pushing for the fed to take them all out a helluva lot sooner, same with they f-in' free loading cattle. When you jump in the fire you should expect to get burned.

 

[azelkhntr]

If you want to trade barbs on the Constitution, I'll stand toe to toe all day long. Your use of the terms I've bolded above is the normal surrender flag when it comes to ability to have reasonable discourse and debate about such topic.

Your privileges on this website are at the discretion of my 5th Amendment rights as the owner of this private property. I suggest you go and re-read the rules you agreed to when signing up to participate on this privately owned forum. As of right now, those privileges are on a very thin wire.

My apologies Big Fin. Ill drop out of this now. Thank you.

 

[Dave N]

 

[Wildabeest]

Well it does matter whom fired first,

No it doesn’t.

it was an ambush

It was actually a lawful stop to serve an arrest warrant

they had a man hidden in the trees

Fully justified given his threatening behavior and previous statements

since no one was pointing any weapons

A truck charging a roadblock at 70mph is a weapon

lonely snow covered stretch of road with nowhere to go

I guess in your mind it would be far better to apprehend an armed criminal who has already demonstrated he is not going to surrender peacefully in the middle of of town with lots of innocent bystanders around.

#GetReal

 

[MO Betta]

 

[Gerald Martin]

Before this useful and informative thread is locked I just realized I need to be educated on how one is a Communist Socialist? Historically speaking, I didn’t think adherents of each respective economic philosophy got along that well.

Is it similar to how someone can be a Constitutional Terrorist?

 

[azelkhntr]

It’s a good question Gerald. Socialism is where govt tells society and the economy what it will produce and how and where the people will live, work etc. Only one political party is allowed; the socialist party of whatever name; we’ll just say NAZI because that’s familiar to all. Communism is where the Party controls every facet of peoples lives and the State seizes total authority. All means of production and property are seized by the State for the benefit of the people, Party and State. You do what you are told and gladly or you’re deemed an enemy of the State and then poof you’re gone. Off to the camps, gulag or if you have an IQ in the 3 digit range the pit. C & S are 2 sides of the same coin. As Ayn Rand noted it’s only the difference between murder and suicide. They both lead straight to the grave, always. I’ve never heard of the term Constitutional Terrorist before. Is that what they call USA patriots now in college?

 

[Irrelevant]

It’s a good question Gerald. Socialism is where govt tells society and the economy what it will produce and how and where the people will live, work etc. Only one political party is allowed; the socialist party of whatever name; we’ll just say NAZI because that’s familiar to all. Communism is where the Party controls every facet of peoples lives and the State seizes total authority. All means of production and property are seized be the State for the benefit of the people, Party and State. You do what you are told and gladly or you’re deemed an enemy of the State and then poof you’re gone. Off to the camps, gulag or if you have an IQ in the 3 digit range the pit. C & S are 2 sides of the same coin. As Ayn Rand noted it’s only the difference between murder and suicide. They both lead straight to the grave, always. I’ve never heard of the term Constitutional Terrorist before. Is that what they call USA patriots now in college?

I bet your post count is coming to an end.

 

[Trial153]

It’s a good question Gerald. Socialism is where govt tells society and the economy what it will produce and how and where the people will live, work etc. Only one political party is allowed; the socialist party of whatever name; we’ll just say NAZI because that’s familiar to all. Communism is where the Party controls every facet of peoples lives and the State seizes total authority. All means of production and property are seized be the State for the benefit of the people, Party and State. You do what you are told and gladly or you’re deemed an enemy of the State and then poof you’re gone. Off to the camps, gulag or if you have an IQ in the 3 digit range the pit. C & S are 2 sides of the same coin. As Ayn Rand noted it’s only the difference between murder and suicide. They both lead straight to the grave, always. I’ve never heard of the term Constitutional Terrorist before. Is that what they call USA patriots now in college?

Stick with conspiracy theories. The explanation of the nuances of different political systems isn't your strong suit.

 

[Straight Arrow]

It’s a good question Gerald. Socialism is where govt tells society and the economy what it will produce and how and where the people will live, work etc. Only one political party is allowed; the socialist party of whatever name; we’ll just say NAZI because that’s familiar to all. Communism is where the Party controls every facet of peoples lives and the State seizes total authority. All means of production and property are seized be the State for the benefit of the people, Party and State. You do what you are told and gladly or you’re deemed an enemy of the State and then poof you’re gone. Off to the camps, gulag or if you have an IQ in the 3 digit range the pit. C & S are 2 sides of the same coin. As Ayn Rand noted it’s only the difference between murder and suicide. They both lead straight to the grave, always. I’ve never heard of the term Constitutional Terrorist before. Is that what they call USA patriots now in college?

Crackerjacks social studies, civics cliffsnotes gonna get you an eff grade.

 

[Dave N]

My apologies Big Fin. Ill drop out of this now. Thank you.

Less than 24 hours later...

 

[Gerald Martin]

Were the Communists and the Nazis allies in World War 2? - asking for a friend....

My history books taught an early unholy alliance between Russia and Germany for the purpose of consuming Poland then all out war....

Would it be safer for me to conclude that “commie socialists“ is hyperbole to describe individuals who have beliefs different than your own rather than an actual reality in America?

 

[noharleyyet]

Were the Communists and the Nazis allies in World War 2? - asking for a friend....

My history books taught an early unholy alliance between Russia and Germany for the purpose of consuming Poland then all out war....

Would it be safer for me to conclude that “commie socialists“ is hyperbole to describe individuals who have beliefs different than your own rather than an actual reality in America?

History notwithstanding, and respectfully, tell me more about this actual reality.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I don’t know what they call patriots in college nowadays. I went straight to work after graduating high school.
Where I learned to pay my bills and rent and usage fees for common property the American taxpayers own.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Patriotic things....