Use Promo Code Randy for 20% off OutdoorClass

Solving Point Creep

Jcour4

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
43
Location
Illinois
It’s application and everybody is planning their hunts, me included. After listening to various podcasts, reading forum posts, and looking at draw stats it’s very clear that point creep is real and will only get worse in the future. I’m fairly young and have been in the points game for a short time and I have been cycling through my points every couple of years. It’s insane to see that a hunt that I did 4years ago in Wyoming for 1point guaranteed now requires 4 points. I will likely not be able to hunt that unit again in the near future nor do I want to wait that long.

So how do the states fix this and allow more people to cycle through their points? As I thought more about the situation I came up with an idea that I would implement if I had the power. Feel free to shoot holes in it but I would like some constructive ideas of how these draw systems should be improved.

Let’s take Colorado for example. It takes 20+ points to draw some units and anybody with less than that will likely never get to hunt top tier units. My suggestion would be to lock in everybody’s current preference point number today. There are about 13800 nonresident hunters that applied in the draw with over 10 points and about 550 were successful in the draw. This could be due to various reasons but it would take about 25 years for these folks to cycle through.

Now I am not saying to get rid of the points system completely, I think they should cap the amount of points that you can hold at a certain number for a certain species. For this case let’s say 10 points is the cap on elk. Anybody with less than 10 points will be able to accrue points until they reach 10 and then they will have to pay the preference point each year to keep those points. If you forget to apply or don’t want to pay the fee you go back to zero.

The next step would be to allow points to be averaged across the hunt group to help eliminate the point holders above 10 points. The state would continue to get their money, high point holders would still have the greatest odds of drawing the unit of their choice, and once the high point holders were out then the max points would be 10 and basically it would be a random draw for the highest demand units. There would be no incentive to keep accruing points because your odds don’t get any better. Over the long term the middle units would experience point creep, but would level out and everybody that stays in the game for at least ten years will have chance, albeit dismal, to draw the top tier units.

Obviously other species would have different preference point totals or systems but for deer, elk, and antelope this would even the playing field and eventually whether you’re 12 years and just leafally old enough to start getting points or 40 and just getting into the draw you are only 10 years away from being in the max point pool.

Thoughts?
 
Now I am not saying to get rid of the points system completely,

I am.

Points create angst and a certain level of expectation. I fail to see the advantage in forcing people to spend money on points, only to achieve and maintain the same level of parity a random draw creates. Eliminate the administrative burden of managing points and simply eliminate them altogether.

If the money accrued each year on point purchases is a deal breaker, add to the price of the applications and the tags to offset it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think Colorado is one of the states that could solve point creep the easiest. Other states with less opportunity not so much. Its as easy as making you use your points if you have a tag for that species. Whether 1st choice, 3rd, landowner, it doesn't matter you burn your points. But most states will still experience creep because there isn't enough supply to meet demand. Even Wyoming which has a decent amount of non res tags would still have creep with elk and deer I believe.

Maybe making a cap is the answer. Problem is after I get to 10 points and don't draw for 20 years and my neighbor down the street draws twice I'm going to complain that its not "fair". Pretty sure that is how point systems got started in the first place.

I bet more of the preference point states shift towards something like AZ and UT. Where half of the tags go to the highest point holder and half to a more random draw. That way you only piss off some of the top point holders, but you keep bringing in new applicants because there are 1/2000 odds of drawing instead of 0% chance like how Colorado and Wyoming are in some units.

Its honestly a tough problem and I doubt everyone will be happy with the changes the different states make.
 
I am.

Points create angst and a certain level of expectation. I fail to see the advantage in forcing people to spend money on points, only to achieve and maintain the same level of parity a random draw creates. Eliminate the administrative burden of managing points and simply eliminate them altogether.

If the money accrued each year on point purchases is a deal breaker, add to the price of the applications and the tags to offset it.

You have my vote.
 
One statistic that I’ve never seen discussed that has a large impact on point creep is if the number of new individuals gaining points outweighs the number that are awarded a tag and then no longer acquire anymore points?

This could be because of their age, or they don’t want to spend the money on the years of points needed for tags.
 
I am.

Points create angst and a certain level of expectation. I fail to see the advantage in forcing people to spend money on points, only to achieve and maintain the same level of parity a random draw creates. Eliminate the administrative burden of managing points and simply eliminate them altogether.

If the money accrued each year on point purchases is a deal breaker, add to the price of the applications and the tags to offset it.

Agreed. Get rid of them. I would give mine up, and that's coming from someone whose more than a decade in in some states.
 
I just don’t think getting rid of the points is a realistic answer, we are too far into the points system and too many people have money invested. It is a compromise, if it were up to me I would gladly give up the points game and do completely random odds but I don’t think that will ever happen.
 
I just don’t think getting rid of the points is a realistic answer, we are too far into the points system and too many people have money invested. It is a compromise, if it were up to me I would gladly give up the points game and do completely random odds but I don’t think that will ever happen.


Spoken like a guy with too few points to be guaranteed drawing coveted tags across the west. Lets say you have max points for elk, and moose in WY, would you gladly give them away before drawing the tags?
 
Stop the points only crap
Like AZ - any tag drawn clears your points

I'm fine with getting rid of points altogether but it won't happen b/c the states are addicted to the $$ the schemes bring in. The senior citizens who started the systems would cry so loud they'd rupture a hemorrhoid since they're the beneficiaries of this crap.
 
Spoken like a guy with too few points to be guaranteed drawing coveted tags across the west. Lets say you have max points for elk, and moose in WY, would you gladly give them away before drawing the tags?

Big Fin has lots of points in lots of states. Even prior to cashing in large numbers of them on his CO Elk hunt and Utah Bison he stated many times he’d gladly give them all up for a random draw for all. Someone being anti point scheme doesn’t always mean they are low on the points totem pole.
 
...but BigFin said....;)

I have lots of points in MT, UT and WY. I would just as soon keep what I have been investing in. Call me selfish.
 
PEAX Trekking Poles

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
110,807
Messages
1,935,176
Members
34,887
Latest member
Uncle_Danno
Back
Top