What states are you putting in for elk and deer that you can't draw?
Solving Point Creep
- Thread starter Jcour4
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What states are you putting in for elk and deer that you can't draw?
As long as the supply and demand curves maintain their trajectories, there will be no true “solution“. More people are interested in a resource than there is resource to go around. You can go around about the best way to split it up, but at the end of the day your personal chance comes up less often. If people aren’t convinced to bow out via cost or wait list length, it will continue to get worse.
The Randy’s were spot on, but used less words than I did.
The Randy’s were spot on, but used less words than I did.
BrentD
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Wyoming
The Hedgehog
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Can't you get a general WY license fairly easily? Or Idaho and Montana? Colorado?
BrentD
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Depends on what kinds of areas you are willing to hunt, of course. But a decent area, is getting very hard. And the point creep last year was 2x faster than the possible point accumulation rate for the mediocre (or worse according to some here) area we were hoping for. If that keeps up, simply waiting and buying more points will not, cannot, work. Sure, we could settle for cow hunts and leftover tags or whatever, but that really isn't the sort of hunting we had in mind.
Other states are certainly possible maybe, but I wonder if it really any different in MT. They also add more distance and an extra day driving each way is 2 days lost from hunting. I guess lots of people have the time. I don't. I love to drive, but I'm paying thousands to hunt, not drive. I am not expecting to hunt 2-3 elk per year or even elk every year, but when it starts to look like once in a decade or more... Maybe I should take up golf.
Certainly, it is not impossible, but it is getting much closer to it. The window is about closed on elk after our accumulated points are gone. Probably one more mule deer hunt - we drew last year so we are back to zero pints at the moment. Pronghorn are hanging in there sorta, but already we are looking at downgrading our hunts to much less desirable areas.
Things like sheep, goats, and moose outside of Alaska, are pretty much impossible. Does make spring black bears more interesting though. So perhaps that will remain doable for a while yet.
There are birds, squirrels, and other things to pursue, but big game, not so much and less and less every year. I have no doubt that other folks as old as me (low 60s) and many (not all) younger people wanting to start, just aren't going to invest in something like big game hunting.
The good news - maybe residents will get more tags?
Until tomorrow, I can keep dreaming that point creep will reverse this year and we will get lucky. Another 24 hours of fooling myself.
If Wyoming published the point pools for each unit each year then folks could see more accurately where they stand. The information is available but is not on the website because if it were on the website a potential applicant could see that some situations are hopeless. TopRut and Gohunt both publish some of this information. Just looking at 2017 was an eye opener for me.
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AvidIndoorsman
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The alternative is a straight lottery, which is even worse for planning and means that you could go your entire life without drawing were as with pref points you know if you live long enough you will eventually draw. There are trade offs to every system. Also couldn't disagree more with the elk/deer comment, sure it might be harder to find a 170+ mule deer or a 320+ bull in general/OTC units but you can absolute hunt every year/every other and find good animals in a couple of different states. I've yet to draw a tag that required more than 1 pt and have hunted a bunch of tags every year.
The Hedgehog
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You're right. You should take up golf and squirrels.
BrentD
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Thanks Greenhorn. You restored my faith and hit my prediction spot on.
D
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It's ten hours from Casper to Challis. If that is enough to make it a once in a decade hunt, so be it. We all have our priorities and make our choices accordingly.
I for one never entered the point game when I should have. I lived in MT at the time, so I didn't see the need nor did I have the money. Now I have the need and the money, and no points. Be creative and rethink your parameters, or roll with the status quo.
I for one never entered the point game when I should have. I lived in MT at the time, so I didn't see the need nor did I have the money. Now I have the need and the money, and no points. Be creative and rethink your parameters, or roll with the status quo.
The Hedgehog
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Sorry, I could hear the violins playing in the background.
Although facts seem to contradict your comments, I'm sure there are great things other than hunting you'll find to enjoy.
Good luck in the draw tomorrow (or today). I'm in too, 13 points, I hope you draw instead of me. It would be a treacherous 3hr drive to where I applied to hunt.
I don't like when the rules and systems change after the program has started. IE; Colorado removed ranching for wildlife from NR & cut the NR allocation % of NR after the system started. Now there are folks talking about trying to change the WYOMING system to not allow Pt averaging on group apps. A few of my friends started building Pts in wyoming when their children were small with the sole reason of doing a good/better hunt with them when they were older or after college. I have an open mind and I appreciate people who give their time to make things better. However, everything is cause and effect somewhere & someway when the deal changes after it started it just seems less fair to the people who play by the rules. I know they care about wildlife management and habitat but if they are spending their time changing a very good system less time is spent on what really matters.
The Hedgehog
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I wonder what would happen if my 22 AZ elk points vanished also, along with my 21 Utah points. Would be terrible. I'm not too worried. Point creep gets me every time. I haven't hunted out of state for elk in 20 years. That drive to southern NM did me in last time.
Gotta get in the right mindset to handle the long drives. A few years ago I made the long drive 3 times in one year and did it twice this year
Goatshoes
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You could fairly end the point system by discontinuing the sale of points and allowing those points on the books to be used up. Its fair and in about a dozen years the point system has been flushed out.
Irrelevant
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One child national policy. Our grandkids will thank us.
TheGrayRider
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Allow point holders to gift, devise, or sell their points. I would gladly sell my accumulated points at the going-market rate and buy a “private” hunt in Alaska or Africa with the proceeds. One could argue its a selfish concept, but I would counter that its simple capitalism and free-markets.Who owns the accumulated points - the State or the pointholder?
BrentD
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What do you suppose the going rate for Wyoming elk points might be? Or Sheep points anywhere?
It would really increase the number of points being bought every year if they could be flipped for even a small profit.
It would really increase the number of points being bought every year if they could be flipped for even a small profit.
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