Shooting an Intruder

[Europe]

People who say they will kill someone without blinking an eye have no idea the psychological impact it will have on them, right or wrong. Killing someone in self defense will hopefully always be the right and legal thing to do, but it has serious consequences, I dont care who you are.

If you read my opening post, I made references to law enforcement and military men within my family and from my small sample of individuals who have been in wars, without a doubt taking a life leaves pysgological scars . I volunteered for a time at a VA hospital. The "disabilities" are not always visible or even obvious. ( How many here watched the movie, American Sniper ?)

As stated. if someone is stealing something from me, with no threat to me or my family, I would not kill them. But if they threatened me or my family I would and the after effect of that would be unknown to me at the time I pulled the trigger, simply because I dont know him, his story, his family, etc ---but, I would not and will not allow anyone to physically harm anyone in my family if I have the means to stop it .

This is a terrible example, but I remember when younger and before my first Lion or Brown Bear hunt, feeling pretty confident in my ability, reactions, etc. But all that changes when they were coming at me to kill me and I SHOT and PRAYED, all at the same time.

I have never taken a life, but I believe for me to say I would shoot him in the leg, or arm, or try to "whatever" ,would be a ridiculous statement for me to make. I believe that if he was in my home attempting to hurt me or someone in my family, or even just pointing a gun at me in a threatening manner, I would shoot him and, to the best of my ability I would be aiming at his chest.

Would I feel bad later, possibly, probably, and to what degree I would feel bad would depend on what I found out about him later. Maybe my actions might have saved lives not just that day but in the future. I would have also felt bad if I had not shot him, and found out later he had killed a family of four while robbing another home. Unfortunately, one isn't given all the facts of this mans life or what he might do or not do in the future or what he might do or not do to you and your family. You react to the situation your presented with at that moment.

If he is in my home and threatening myself or my family, I would shoot him and worry about my feelings later.

p.s. and as noharleyyet said: lawyers and money dont bring back loved ones . if they are alive and I am in jail, as opposed to them being dead. Easy decision for me

 

[noharleyyet]

Yep, lawyers and money don't bring loved ones back. And angst over a perp doesn't reconcile with regret for inaction. I'll stress once again....prejudicial judiciousness.

 

[Buschy]

A prosecutor would likely use it to try to prove that you intended to kill him. Same way with handloads, esp. with hollow point bullets. best to use factory ammo in self defense weapons; at least that's what's generally advised. Shoot until the threat is ended would be better. If the person is down but can be approached and neutralized with no more firing that would be best. Of course it's always easy to talk one way or another until the moment of truth arrives. Hope I never have to find out.

Solid advice for anyone who wants to listen.

 

[thusby]

Just make sure the intruder isn't a drunk college kid that stumbled into the wrong house and slept on your couch. Yeah, I know that guy. Lucky for him the people made him breakfast instead of shooting him full of holes.

 

[Nameless Range]

Lots of interesting comments. It is true that when normalized across all homes, having a firearm in a home for self protection statistically increases the chances of someone in that home being harmed by their own firearm, but within those statistics are statistics of their own (unsecured guns, children that can access them, mental health issues, etc). There are behaviors within those stats that can educate someone on how not become one of them. Not all stats are created equal and in fact they can inform you. It's not like just having a gun in your home necessarily attributes those probabilities to you. Though, it takes effort and conscious discipline to make that not the case.

Additionally, I don't believe all situations that endanger one's life are created equal. You may be more likely to die on your drive to work than at the hands of evil, but one of those is a different risk/reward analysis than the other. To each their own when it comes to those decisions and thresholds. I wouldn't tell anyone how they should do things.

I have a gun in a safe near my bed that only my wife and I can access. I also have a security system with cameras. This doesn't guarantee anything, and I won't pretend it does, but I do run different situations through my head and in certain situations, albeit improbable ones, those facts could help protect us.

Something that has really changed my perspective on things is the YouTube channel Active Self Protection. The way gunfights happen, how people react when shot, and how it can all go wrong are common themes. The host will often show that compliance is the best solution, or just locking your door, or running. It will also often show how drawing your gun is a way to get yourself killed. It isn't a channel designed around chest beating, and if you can forgive the host for his sometimes cheesy and cold commentary, for me it has served as realistic daily evidence that evil exists, and people often thwart it with firearms.

 

[Europe]

Just make sure the intruder isn't a drunk college kid that stumbled into the wrong house and slept on your couch. Yeah, I know that guy. Lucky for him the people made him breakfast instead of shooting him full of holes.

with all due respect sir, I dont know how this is even close to the same, unless you were being light hearted about you or a friend of yours during your college days. If that is the case please disregard this post and I too am glad that situation turned out the way it did.

But finding a drunk on your couch and seeing and hearing a man in your home with a gun making threatening remarks and gestures are a bit different. Remember how these two thread got started --a man was in someones home pistol whipping the husband when the wife shot him. I would have done the same. However if I went downstairs and found an unconscious young man on my couch, I would like to believe my first instincts would not be to shoot him

 

[Panda Bear]

Since your a single woman, living alone April and if you found a college man drunk on your couch -------I just can't finish this post April. I will send you private message

Also thanks for the heads up regarding Hunting Wife's thread, headed there now.

back to this thread.

This is not bravado, just a fact. If a man is threatening my family and I am in a position to do something about it , I will !

 

[thusby]

Light hearted yeah. No worries, I would have capped the other dudes.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

with all due respect sir, I dont know how this is even close to the same, unless you were being light hearted about you or a friend of yours during your college days. If that is the case please disregard this post and I too am glad that situation turned out the way it did.

But finding a drunk on your couch and seeing and hearing a man in your home with a gun making threatening remarks and gestures are a bit different. Remember how these two thread got started --a man was in someones home pistol whipping the husband when the wife shot him. I would have done the same. However if I went downstairs and found an unconscious young man on my couch, I would like to believe my first instincts would not be to shoot him

Or girl...

Drunk Woman Shot After Wandering Into Colo. Home

A drunk woman will be charged with felony trespassing after she wandered into a couple's home in Boulder, Colo. on Wednesday, the Boulder District Attorney's Office said Friday. Recent University of Colorado Boulder graduate Zoe Ripple, 21, was unarmed and intoxicated when she entered the...

preview.abcnews.go.com

 

[thusby]

Probably more likely to get stabbed to death by a gravity knife at my house though.

 

[Bigjay73]

If you read my opening post, I made references to law enforcement and military men within my family and from my small sample of individuals who have been in wars, without a doubt taking a life leaves pysgological scars . I volunteered for a time at a VA hospital. The "disabilities" are not always visible or even obvious. ( How many here watched the movie, American Sniper ?)

As stated. if someone is stealing something from me, with no threat to me or my family, I would not kill them. But if they threatened me or my family I would and the after effect of that would be unknown to me at the time I pulled the trigger, simply because I dont know him, his story, his family, etc ---but, I would not and will not allow anyone to physically harm anyone in my family if I have the means to stop it .

This is a terrible example, but I remember when younger and before my first Lion or Brown Bear hunt, feeling pretty confident in my ability, reactions, etc. But all that changes when they were coming at me to kill me and I SHOT and PRAYED, all at the same time.

I have never taken a life, but I believe for me to say I would shoot him in the leg, or arm, or try to "whatever" ,would be a ridiculous statement for me to make. I believe that if he was in my home attempting to hurt me or someone in my family, or even just pointing a gun at me in a threatening manner, I would shoot him and, to the best of my ability I would be aiming at his chest.

Would I feel bad later, possibly, probably, and to what degree I would feel bad would depend on what I found out about him later. Maybe my actions might have saved lives not just that day but in the future. I would have also felt bad if I had not shot him, and found out later he had killed a family of four while robbing another home. Unfortunately, one isn't given all the facts of this mans life or what he might do or not do in the future or what he might do or not do to you and your family. You react to the situation your presented with at that moment.

If he is in my home and threatening myself or my family, I would shoot him and worry about my feelings later.

p.s. and as noharleyyet said: lawyers and money dont bring back loved ones . if they are alive and I am in jail, as opposed to them being dead. Easy decision for me

My post wasnt directed at you or anyone else, just something to make people think about the big picture. I agree with just about everything in your statement.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Care to explain? In the very rare instance when any shot would need to be fired, I would keep shooting until they were not moving at all. Its not like hunting were you take one shot so you don't ruin what you want to eat.

You can be legally justified in shooting someone ten times, but the 11th is deemed excessive , either criminally and/or civilly. Emptying your magazine on someone simply because they are still moving is not a prudent choice. If they are still a viable threat, fine. But, if they are not, you're on your way to an orange jumpsuit and/or bankruptcy.

 

[kmott]

Care to explain? In the very rare instance when any shot would need to be fired, I would keep shooting until they were not moving at all. Its not like hunting were you take one shot so you don't ruin what you want to eat.

are you really saying you wouldn't eat em???????????????

 

[thusby]

I blame True Crime TV for everything in this thread

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I have been the home invader in the past, I have watched supposedly "hardened individuals" put up zero fight when the goons came through their bedroom door.

A few thoughts:
1. Put a light on your weapon, and make damned sure you have positive ID. There is no such thing as too much light shed on what will be a very chaotic/confused situation.
2. Don't assume you will be capable of all of these rational decisions, or that you will have a lot of time to determine anything. You will act on instinct, you will probably make mistakes, just hope they aren't big ones.
3. Bullets go through walls, even pistol rounds, you better think ahead about where everyone is in the house. Shotguns with #5s will put the hurt on someone at in-home distances, and will be much less dangerous on the backside of a sheet rocked wall.
4. Have an alarm and set it. This will probably stop any encounter before it starts.
5. You will lose sleep. Even if you did everything right, you will lose sleep.

It is not safe to assume you are going to perform when the meat is hitting the metal, overconfidence is not your friend.

 

[mtmuley]

I have been the home invader in the past, I have watched supposedly "hardened individuals" put up zero fight when the goons came through their bedroom door.

A few thoughts:
1. Put a light on your weapon, and make damned sure you have positive ID. There is no such thing as too much light shed on what will be a very chaotic/confused situation.

I was going to post this. No mistaken identity and the bright light (brighter the better) can do more to diffuse the situation than the gun. Another tip from my CCW class. mtmuley

 

[ismith]

You can be legally justified in shooting someone ten times, but the 11th is deemed excessive , either criminally and/or civilly. Emptying your magazine on someone simply because they are still moving is not a prudent choice. If they are still a viable threat, fine. But, if they are not, you're on your way to an orange jumpsuit and/or bankruptcy.

Or you're under extreme duress because you fear for your life.

 

[ismith]

I have been the home invader in the past, I have watched supposedly "hardened individuals" put up zero fight when the goons came through their bedroom door.

A few thoughts:
1. Put a light on your weapon, and make damned sure you have positive ID. There is no such thing as too much light shed on what will be a very chaotic/confused situation.
2. Don't assume you will be capable of all of these rational decisions, or that you will have a lot of time to determine anything. You will act on instinct, you will probably make mistakes, just hope they aren't big ones.
3. Bullets go through walls, even pistol rounds, you better think ahead about where everyone is in the house. Shotguns with #5s will put the hurt on someone at in-home distances, and will be much less dangerous on the backside of a sheet rocked wall.
4. Have an alarm and set it. This will probably stop any encounter before it starts.
5. You will lose sleep. Even if you did everything right, you will lose sleep.

It is not safe to assume you are going to perform when the meat is hitting the metal, overconfidence is not your friend.

Very well said! I would add that the value of familiarity with your chosen weapon cannot be overstated.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Or you're under extreme duress because you fear for your life.

An experience, that statistically, zero people in that court room will have in common with you, or even conceptualize.

 

[ZBB]

I have been the home invader in the past, I have watched supposedly "hardened individuals" put up zero fight when the goons came through their bedroom door.

A few thoughts:
1. Put a light on your weapon, and make damned sure you have positive ID. There is no such thing as too much light shed on what will be a very chaotic/confused situation.
2. Don't assume you will be capable of all of these rational decisions, or that you will have a lot of time to determine anything. You will act on instinct, you will probably make mistakes, just hope they aren't big ones.
3. Bullets go through walls, even pistol rounds, you better think ahead about where everyone is in the house. Shotguns with #5s will put the hurt on someone at in-home distances, and will be much less dangerous on the backside of a sheet rocked wall.
4. Have an alarm and set it. This will probably stop any encounter before it starts.
5. You will lose sleep. Even if you did everything right, you will lose sleep.

It is not safe to assume you are going to perform when the meat is hitting the metal, overconfidence is not your friend.

When I can’t sleep at night on my pillow top mattress I get jealous of those a-holes that can sleep through their door being kicked in sleeping on a rug on a dirt/concrete floor...then I watch YouTube.