Send to Trainer or train him myself

Ttannahill14

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Central Kansas
So the pup is about 5 months old... he's supposed to go off to the trainer at 6 months... and the wife is throwing a FIT! In honor of Randy's "seek peace, not justice" tag line... i guess I'm considering not sending him to the trainer.

My expectations for this dog are somewhere around an AKC Senior hunt test dog. Don't really plan on putting him in any trials but I would like him to retrieve doubles and triples... honor another dog's retrieve, i expect him to never break early... just a nice solid retriever. I don't need double 300 yard blind retrievers or anything crazy.Would also like him to point, flush, and retrieve upland birds... this doesn't need to be pretty I just want him affective.

I work on the road 3-4 days a week, but work from home the other 3-4... So the days I am home I could have 2-4 sessions a day. I have access to plenty of close land and a pond in my backyard...

As someone who's never trained a hunting dog... should I give this a go? If so, any Youtube videos you would recommend... books or DVD's? Or should i stick my heels in the ground and just send him off.
 
Send your dog to a trainer. It's way worth it and you will know it's done right the first time. Look around to find a trainer with the best price and program you want.
 
Screw the $$$ trainer. If the dog has the right genes - he has everything you need hardwired. Spend the time and effort with your dog and get a perfectly tuned machine. I did..........b2.jpeg.jpg
 
Screw the $$$ trainer. If the dog has the right genes - he has everything you need hardwired. Spend the time and effort with your dog and get a perfectly tuned machine. I did..........View attachment 73863

He's got the genes... 4X GM on both sides... thats kinda my opinion i paid the money for the genes... he's done everything I've asked of him so far and a great dog... not stubborn at all.
 
What Breed? Lab?

In any case, find a local gun dog club and see if you can attend a training day. one summer of training at home and regular club training days, and and AKC Senior Hunter level would be doable on your own. But there is definitely a time commitment to it.
 
no trainer...if you have 3-4 days/week and can work a few times a day, you'll have no problem getting the dog you want. Richard Wolters books (although 50+ years old) are still full of great info, and then do a search for Mike Lardy...you'll have more than you need to end up with a great dog!
 
I was faced with the same dilemma. I opted for the less expensive route. Hank is far from "good" and farther from "perfect", but him and I have learned and had a ton of fun getting to where we are. My one suggestion, is spend the money for the right equipment to do your trainer right off the bat. I tried forgoing a few pieces, that once I bought them, I wish I had them much, much sooner. Secondly, locate a place to do the training. Yard work is good and where I started, but once I found a place that resembled the outdoors, things were so much more fun and the time so much more productive. Hank's my first go at a bird dog and his faults are mine, but it's been hoot.

Untitled by Tyler Staggs, on Flickr
 
I'd really think on it before you try and train it yourself. You know you better than anyone. Will you have the time and are you disciplined enough to get it done? Nothing worse than a half trained dog. It's tough on you, your dog, your buddies, and other guys out in the field.

That said, training dogs is a lot of fun. But one of the "secrets" for a first time trainer is to make sure you have a more experienced acquaintance you can call for some help now and then.
 
Need some more info.

Do you have kids? What other time commitments do you have? What kind of dog?

I did my first one myself. She is 14 now and we got her right when we got married. I didn't have kids or really any other commitments other than my wife. I was really dedicated to getting this done right. I lucked out she was the perfect dog. FYI just cause the breeding is there doesn't mean the dog will be easy to train sometimes it can be the opposite. My younger dogs pedigree is much better as is her drive but she is much more of a pain to train. The first dog was just really easy to train and it fooled me to thinking I was a good trainer. She breezed through JH and SH titles. She did master level work but then kids came and I didn't have time to run test so we just hunted a lot.

If you are looking into retrieving stuff Evan Graham smart works series are really dam good and they are affordable. He is an interesting guy. I had a book called pointing labs by Julie Knutson. I am not sure if it is available anymore but if you can find a copy of it, it is a good read. Smartworks is a better playbook that takes you step by step through getting your dog to where you want it. The other book is more of a holistic look at the mentality of a dog and how you plan around training it. It does have some of the step by step technical stuff in it but that part of the book isn't as good as the smartworks stuff.

If you have the time, are a dedicated person and you have to have a good mental aspect to it don't get to happy or to upset then go for it. Also having someone that is pretty experience to bounce ideas off of helps to.

One last thing you will need some equipment. Lots of bumpers and launchers are expensive but they are really nice to have unless you have lots of hands to throw birds.
 
I breed and train labs myself for waterfowling. And I would tell you this:

1. You can absolutely train your own dog to hunt. If you did your research, his instincts will be good and you will just be guiding those. You can always make appointment with another trainer to help guide you along the process ("I see this in him, so do this...") instead of just leaving them. You need to be clear on what your expectations are (I've never done a 300 yd retrieve from a duck blind...ever.) So getting a dog to hunt out to 50 yards or so and then back is just fine for me.

2. If you are wanting titles however, and you have never done it before, that will be more difficult. It will take a considerable investment of time, energy, and learning. Full disclosure, I don't care about titles and I don't have time to train towards them. I breed labs for companion dogs that are hunters, what the lab originally was.

If you need help or have questions along the way, shoot me a PM.
 
I'd really think on it before you try and train it yourself. You know you better than anyone. Will you have the time and are you disciplined enough to get it done? Nothing worse than a half trained dog. It's tough on you, your dog, your buddies, and other guys out in the field.

That said, training dogs is a lot of fun. But one of the "secrets" for a first time trainer is to make sure you have a more experienced acquaintance you can call for some help now and then.

Lots of good advice on this thread, but I think Belly's is the most succinct and perfect.

I work from home, and can spend at least 2-4 hours a day with the pup (she's sleeping on the futon in my office as I type). This is my first bird dog, and the dog that I've trained. I rely on advice from folks who have done it before as well as the Wolter's book (which is wonderfully written in the style of the times and thoroughly upset my wife when I read certain passages aloud) and the Dokken Retriever Training book, which is easier to read & understand, IMO.

Once she's old enough, I'll be working with the local gun dog club on training through the winter, spring & summer so when Sept. 1 rolls around next year, Greta is ready to rock & roll. If you have a local gun dog club, they can help as well by training the trainer as well as helping with the dog.
 
So I guess this is a lab. I've only worked with a few and two were my own. Something that occurred to me was the most important part of training with them was obedience. An out of control flusher in a bird field can really ruin a day! Seem's to me that lab trainer's do start out fairly young, 6 mos. But I'm not sure why, I'd guess for obedience, that is a must. Not real tuff to train a retriever unless you want it done right! I've got a young Red Setter that does doubles and triples. He love's retrieving so it came pretty quick to him. With a well bred retriever I'd think it would come a whole lot sooner.

I think you did say something about upland game. If that is so, your gonna need birds at some point. Save yourself a lot of money and start with pigeons in your own loft. Easy to use with retrieving type dog's, just pull the flight feather's , salt a field with them and let the dog go catch each one. Hope for a soft mouth and you can use the bird's over and over again. If you have a bit of time, I'd certainly train the dog myself, you will develop a greater bond with the dog.
 
Something to think about, is not only your available time, but what is your patience level? And patience level with frustration of not so good behavior while they are pup and learning. You don't want to get discouraged and train the pup out of frustration or start to give up. It was said above, about finding a part time trainer. I would do that, compose a list and meet with a trainer, get their input on what you want your dog to be able to do and often you actually hunt each year and scenario you want your dog trained in. See if you can train the dog to where you are mentored by the trainer with the dog. You take the dog home and work with him on that task until he has it done. Go back to the trainer - run a test with the trainer and dog, and move on to the next task. There probably aren't going to be a lot of trainers that will do this, but you should be able to find one that has some extra time, but not enough time to take on another dog too.
 
Going to try and summarize some of the questions asked...

Yes he's a lab.

He honestly has been a pretty darn near perfect dog... he flips the switch from lazy house dog to hunting companion pretty quickly... I don't ever see him getting out of control... I would see him looking at me and saying "screw you dad you go get that bird across that freezing river" before I could see myself having an out of control dog ha.

He's coming along pretty will retrieving... marking singels with ease... water retrieves and field. Havne't started anything blind yet. Haven't started any e-colloar yet.

He's very obedient. We have Sit, Stay, Here, Release down pat. Still gets a little squirly on Hell as I'm not too picky as long as he's within my reach I let it slide.


My personality is very laid back. I rarely get mad or down. And even a bad day of training is still fun cause I love this dog. So I don't see myself getting frustrated. I could honestly see myself being a little too easy going and not strict enough.

I have access to birds about 30 minutes away. We don't have the facilities to house our own birds although I wish we did. $5/quail will get a little pricey but i'll survive. Might be able to work out a bulk discount if I buy a decent amount throughout the year. It looks online like pigeons are cheaper... is there a benefit to using quail vs pigeons? We've dove hunted a couple times already this year and he's done pretty good. Pretty soft mouth. Can I just freeze dead birds that we hunt? Is that a no no for some reason? Obviously live birds are needed for upland work but for retrieving and scent tracking dead birds would work, right?


it's jsut the wife and I. No kids. I work on the road a few days a week and work from home rest. Fall gets a little crazy with other hunting and football games, but after Thanksgiving things slow down.


Worst case scenario... lets say I don't do a very good job this fall and winter and we're goign into spring with a very average dog... he would be 1 year old then... could I still send him to the trainer at that point and hopefulyl they could fix some bad habits and correct some things? Don't foresee that happening... but just would like to be able to halfway save him if he wasn't responding to the things I was doing.

Thanks guys
 
Worst case scenario... lets say I don't do a very good job this fall and winter and we're goign into spring with a very average dog... he would be 1 year old then... could I still send him to the trainer at that point and hopefulyl they could fix some bad habits and correct some things? Don't foresee that happening... but just would like to be able to halfway save him if he wasn't responding to the things I was doing.

Thanks guys

Yes, but... It is far better to get him started right than to try and correct bad habits later. FAR, far, far easier. Spend the $ for a couple of up front lessons, get started in the right direction and then come back for a monthly checkin for the first few months. If its about money, the investment is very sound.

If it needs to be said, make sure you introduce gunfire gradually and appropriately. That's the biggest issue I have found next to general obedience from first time trainers.
 
Generally I'm a proud do-it-yourselfer and consider myself to be on the more patient end of the spectrum. However, due to circumstances going on in my life when we got Rikki Bobbi I decided to send her away for training--best $600 I ever spent.
 
Yes, but... It is far better to get him started right than to try and correct bad habits later. FAR, far, far easier. Spend the $ for a couple of up front lessons, get started in the right direction and then come back for a monthly checkin for the first few months. If its about money, the investment is very sound.

If it needs to be said, make sure you introduce gunfire gradually and appropriately. That's the biggest issue I have found next to general obedience from first time trainers.

He has absolutely no fear of gun fire we got him trained correctly on that already.

It's not about money... its about having him be gone for 60 days for my wife... Trust me the amount of hours this will take and the amount the trainers charge they're still under paid ha imho.
 
It'd be more than 60 days of training to do basics properly. There's a lot in dog training that is very dependent on the previous step being done properly. Odds are doing your own work and then deciding to go to a trainer would result in a lot more $$$ spent on your end, and more trouble for your dog. You can train a dog at any age, but it is far more difficult once you've allowed bad habits to permeate through their work.
 
If it's your first time I would seek some help from someone who knows what they're doing. Even if it's just going to a basic puppy obedience class, YOU will learn a lot. My dog is far from perfect and I fully recognize that it's my fault for not having more drive, passion, equipment, time, etc... to really work with her, but she is a good dog. I tried to go it alone at first but I wasn't getting the results I wanted, I read all these books and watched youtube, dvds, etc... but it didn't work because I wasn't consistent.

Best thing I did was take my pup to a basic puppy obedience class starting once a week for 6 weeks. I subsequently ended up doing another 6 week, more advanced program that included e-collar conditioning and 2-3 private lessons. Best money I ever spent on my dog! I thought I knew it all, but these classes taught ME more than her.
 
I breed and train labs myself for waterfowling. And I would tell you this:

1. You can absolutely train your own dog to hunt. If you did your research, his instincts will be good and you will just be guiding those. You can always make appointment with another trainer to help guide you along the process ("I see this in him, so do this...") instead of just leaving them. You need to be clear on what your expectations are (I've never done a 300 yd retrieve from a duck blind...ever.) So getting a dog to hunt out to 50 yards or so and then back is just fine for me.

2. If you are wanting titles however, and you have never done it before, that will be more difficult. It will take a considerable investment of time, energy, and learning. Full disclosure, I don't care about titles and I don't have time to train towards them. I breed labs for companion dogs that are hunters, what the lab originally was.

If you need help or have questions along the way, shoot me a PM.

I am not sure if I ever did a 300 yard blind retrieve out of a duck blind but I did a few snow goose hunt, got dam that was fun and I miss having that dog out with me. Honestly once you get them moving over 100 and some yards it isn't that hard depending on drive of dog and # of whistles. If you have to blow it a few more times big deal.

Blind retrieves look difficult to people that don't know much about dogs but honestly that is one of the easier parts of training once you get the basics down. Getting a dog to dial in on multiple marks and distractions, de-cheating, etc is much more difficult.
 
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