Screwing over the Non-resident (or not)?

[Treeshark]

but what I don't think people get is the west is still by in large a bunch of old heads... and whining and b**ching isn't a satisfying taste to them. My uncles, dad, grandpa, would by happy to end nr hunting, by in large I think a large part of eastern montana...

Couldn’t you just imagine those old heads exploding if Montana had to raise resident fees to offset the cost of those NR tags no longer being sold? I bet they would go cray-zay!

 

[rjthehunter]

I do think the pressures get eased when we have more animals. I don’t think it is a recent trend because residents dislike non-residents, in spite of what some say about non-residents. If there is ample resident opportunity, most folks I talk to are fine with abundant nonresident opportunity.

The reason I say that is because I believe that. History has shown it to be true. Yet, we are at a place now with shrinking herds and growing resident populations, the two thinks that put the greatest pressure on the R-NR allocation.

I disagree that residents won’t be happy until they get all the good tags. If they truly felt that way, they could make it happen. Even with MT ram tags 50% of what they were in the 1990s, I’m still fine with NRs getting up to 10% of them. I can probably get ten legislators to sponsor a bill to cut that to 5% for every legislator I can get to sponsor a resident fee increase. I have no desire to cut the NR further and most the folks involved in policy in this state feel the same. If we were at 25%, like WY was, I’d probably feel differently.

Yes, I feel residents should pay more. I’ve tried to get that passed in MT and have pretty much given up on the idea. I get hammered every time I bring it up, but it needs to happen. The same people who complain about a resident fee increase are the same who complain about NRs having too much sway. Can’t have it both ways, but some want it that way.

I’m happy with 90/10 for all species.

Randy,

Let's say herd number continue to increase across the board. Should residents start getting 2 or 3 general tags to maintain the 90/10 split? Or do you think the split should be adjusted to give NRs more frequent opportunities?

 

[mtmuley]

Couldn’t you just imagine those old heads exploding if Montana had to raise resident fees to offset the cost of those NR tags no longer being sold? I bet they would go cray-zay!

Not me. I would welcome it. This thread has done a lot to help make me realize that. mtmuley

 

[brymoore]

Randy,

Let's say herd number continue to increase across the board. Should residents start getting 2 or 3 general tags to maintain the 90/10 split? Or do you think the split should be adjusted to give NRs more frequent opportunities?

Or you could keep the tag numbers the same and improve the success rate for the tags.

 

[BuzzH]

Randy,

Let's say herd number continue to increase across the board. Should residents start getting 2 or 3 general tags to maintain the 90/10 split? Or do you think the split should be adjusted to give NRs more frequent opportunities?

"We just don't see enough hunters in the general areas in Wyoming, plus, having to sort through all these bulls is just so inconvenient"............said no Resident elk hunter, ever.

Please list the general areas that have too many bulls...or too high of a bull to cow ratio.

We need to manage general elk areas to maintain quality of hunt and quality of elk...not provide more opportunity. If you want more opportunity with lesser quality of same, try Montana or Colorado.

 

[406dn]

Like I said several times, telling people to move only exacerbates the issue. Be careful what you wise for you might get it. It’s brave new world buddy and the people moving aren’t buying a quarter acre lot and double wide.

That has been going on for the entire time I've lived in Montana. Ted Turner bought several ranches in Montana. The Wilkes brothers own a shit load of land, not only in Montana. You aren't saying anything that most don't already know.

It is a fact that, absent public land, elk hunting would already be reserved for the wealthy and connected. Oh, there would be hunting for cow elk, the real interest for wealthy hunters, are mature bulls. Montana has shoulder seasons where hunters can hunt for a cow elk on land where they will never have permission to hunt for a bull.

So your threat is pretty empty, it has been going on for longer than I've been alive. It will continue. It will make things tougher for both resident hunters and non resident hunters. I'll let you figure out which group of hunters get hurt more.

Regarding resident license fees, I wish they priced the present $25 resident elk tag at $100. It would likely cause a drop in resident hunter numbers, but net more revenue. It won't happen because legislators won't withstand the blowback. It is far easier for them to raise non resident licenses, since they can't vote them out of office. So, maybe aim your boundless vitriol at our politicians. They aren't much different than politicians everywhere else.

 

[Bigjay73]

Couldn’t you just imagine those old heads exploding if Montana had to raise resident fees to offset the cost of those NR tags no longer being sold? I bet they would go cray-zay!

Heads exploded in Az when they raised resident elk tag cost by 50% back in 2006 or 07, cant remember exactly which year it was . I'm pretty sure the amount of apps never dropped

 

[Visiting Hunter]

Couldn’t you just imagine those old heads exploding if Montana had to raise resident fees to offset the cost of those NR tags no longer being sold? I bet they would go cray-zay!

Yeah they would. And to be honest, they would just keep promoting to charge more and more to nr and offset a majority of those costs.. Iv had multiple locals that laugh at me when I say their tag costs would go up like they care... eastern Montana would be in large, I think fine with paying more and cutting to the 17000 and the 5900 deer tags with recent herds.. those old heads are my uncles and veiws are alot of how the eastern part does, and will laugh when I try and stick up for nr hunting and the funding. I grew up with them so I have a good idea what they are going to say... and its alot of the way montana thinks... the ht crowd is the lower majority trying to help a bit I think... most eastern Montana is fine with cutting the amount severely back any time it comes up around the fire when I visit. So I don't think they would care as much as you think. I think they would honestly say "well atleast fish and game finally did something right they can make the same off of 23k or so.. got all them extra useless tags outta here finally..."

 

[Big Fin]

Randy,

Let's say herd number continue to increase across the board. Should residents start getting 2 or 3 general tags to maintain the 90/10 split? Or do you think the split should be adjusted to give NRs more frequent opportunities?

That’s up to each state and their Trustees and Beneficiaries. Given the fluctuations in herds being rather dramatic over the course of just a few years I doubt legislators or agencies are keen on changing the 90/10 split every time herd numbers change.

I’d say stick with 90/10 and if herd numbers go up, both the 90% and the 10% should see higher tag numbers.

 

[Dave N]

$25 elk tags. We pay that for our whitetail tags! It’s pretty obvious you folks COULD raise the price and still have a pretty good deal. I'm too lazy to look up Illinois NR deer tag costs to compare to the NR elk tags. Betcha it ain't even close!

 

[Trial153]

$25 elk tags. We pay that for our whitetail tags! It’s pretty obvious you folks COULD raise the price and still have a pretty good deal. I'm too lazy to look up Illinois NR deer tag costs to compare to the NR elk tags. Betcha it ain't even close!

Illinois NR either sex deer tag combo is over 500 You get an either sex tag and on antlerless tag.

As a NR landowner I get two either sex tags, one is good state wide and the other is only good on my property

 

[Nick87]

$25 elk tags. We pay that for our whitetail tags! It’s pretty obvious you folks COULD raise the price and still have a pretty good deal. I'm too lazy to look up Illinois NR deer tag costs to compare to the NR elk tags. Betcha it ain't even close!

Not exact but I'm close. $385 for firearm
$410 for archery. Elk ain't exactly deer either though.

 

[Archer86]

$25 elk tags. We pay that for our whitetail tags! It’s pretty obvious you folks COULD raise the price and still have a pretty good deal. I'm too lazy to look up Illinois NR deer tag costs to compare to the NR elk tags. Betcha it ain't even close!

Well who wants to go to Illinois to hunt whitetail. I sure don't lower demand lower cost

 

[Nick87]

Well who wants to go to Illinois to hunt whitetail

Umm actually a lot of people.

 

[Dave N]

Just looked. 2024 prices. Resident firearm e/s tag is $29. Same tag for NR is $304. Let's call it an even 10 times as much. For a deer. Apples to apples, no, but not having elk here it's all I've got. So, would my elk tag cost me 10 times what you guys pay? I know that answer already. Ya' think you could afford to pay a little more for your own tags?

 

[Bigjay73]

Not exact but I'm close. $385 for firearm
$410 for archery. Elk ain't exactly deer either though.

Yeah, but you're guaranteed a B&C buck! At least that's what the guys on the teevee used to say

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That’s up to each state and their Trustees and Beneficiaries. Given the fluctuations in herds being rather dramatic over the course of just a few years I doubt legislators or agencies are keen on changing the 90/10 split every time herd numbers change.

I’d say stick with 90/10 and if herd numbers go up, both the 90% and the 10% should see higher tag numbers.

All of the western herds were a fraction of what they are today 100 years, many barely existed at all. Look at elk in CO in the late 1800s-1920s.

Obviously that population expanded and at some point we got the modern framework.

Any clue what the R/NR split was in the beginning, I mean obviously there was a point where Hunter pressure v. Number of animals were at a ratio similar to what they are now.

@Oak passed along some regs from back in the day and I found some myself that suggest that the current resident/non-resident price ratios are pretty similar.

Curious if they were 90/10 expanded as herds grew and now are contracting or if they started at 65/45 and if residents now are just jerks

 

[Nick87]

Just looked. 2024 prices. Resident firearm e/s tag is $29. Same tag for NR is $304. Let's call it an even 10 times as much. For a deer. Apples to apples, no, but not having elk here it's all I've got. So, would my elk tag cost me 10 times what you guys pay? I know that answer already. Ya' think you could afford to pay a little more for your own tags?

Wow. They must have dropped it or I'm losing it I swear the archery was north of $400 at one time.

 

[Nick87]

Yeah, but you're guaranteed a B&C buck! At least that's what the guys on the teevee used to say

It's definitely not what it once was. The potential is still there though.

 

[Bigjay73]

It's definitely not what it once was. The potential is still there though.

Jakie Bushman must have killed em all