Roadless Rule Rescinded

[Beignet]

Generally, you have to know you can do something before you assign money to it.

Man, sometimes I really appreciate how stubbornly you cling to an idea. "Lookit, they're only doing this for fire mitigation and everything will be a-ok." or "The SEC is still the most dominant conference in college football." I jest, but you kind of ruined your credibility with all the SEC commentary in the past.

 

[jimh406]

Man, sometimes I really appreciate how stubbornly you cling to an idea.

You make assumptions and then apply your traits to me. .

I'm not the one who's convinced they know what rescinding the roadless rule will do. I'm just pointing out what the proponents think it is going to do.

As far as the SEC goes, it's an unknown too. Some are sure it's the end of the SEC. That's possible but considering how much more the SEC focuses on Football, and how much they have in donations, I think we have to see how this plays out. NIL has the conferences in a transition.

 

[elkduds]

Here’s a link everyone to submit a comment:

Maintain National Forest Roadless Areas

Since 2001, the Roadless Area Conservation Rule has safeguarded some of our nation's most wild and intact national forest lands . The implementation of the Roadless Rule followed 600 local meetings as well as 1.6 million public comments, with 95% in support. Today 58 million acres of backcountry...

takeaction.io

Thanks for the link, comment made in vehement opposition.

 

[Ben Lamb]

For those looking for specific studies, etc to cite in your comments, BHA pulled together a solid literature review on the impacts of road on elk:

Literature Review: The Impact of Roads on Elk

The following is a partial review of leading studies which demonstrate the impact that roads and motorized use have on elk. James W. Unsworth, Lonn Kuck, Edward O. Garton and Bart R. Butterfield. 1998. Elk Habitat Selection on the Clearwater National Forest, Idaho.The Journal of Wildlife...

www.backcountryhunters.org

 

[jpc01101]

I don’t know enough about this to know if I should be outraged or hopeful that some of the 12’ tall matrix blowdown hell that I often find myself in while out west might be cleared out/used for something beneficial thus opening the forest back to up animals who have largely abandoned large chunks of it.

 

[oxn939]

I don’t know enough about this to know if I should be outraged or hopeful that some of the 12’ tall matrix blowdown hell that I often find myself in while out west might be cleared out/used for something beneficial thus opening the forest back to up animals who have largely abandoned large chunks of it.

Two quick ones.

One, the largest area affected by this will be the Tongass in AK. It is a rainforest that gets between 100 and 200 inches of rain a year. There is no fire danger there. Rescinding the roadless rule simply opens it up to commercial logging.

Two, the risk of a wildfire starting in an area quadruples when it gets a road, for obvious reasons. Some management is necessary. The clear cut logging this is intended to facilitate is not.

Just like the invasion of Venezuela... definitely all about helping the Venezuelan people and has NOTHING at all to do with the fact that they have the largest petroleum reserves of any country in the hemisphere...

 

[Nameless Range]

I don’t know enough about this to know if I should be outraged or hopeful that some of the 12’ tall matrix blowdown hell that I often find myself in while out west might be cleared out/used for something beneficial thus opening the forest back to up animals who have largely abandoned large chunks of it.

In every direction from my house are hundreds of thousands of acres of beetle-killed hellscape that deer and elk basically don't use. Most if it ain't in roadless areas, and nothing is really being done about those places as is, and so nothing will be done about it in what are currently-roadless areas if roadless areas are removed as a management distinction.

It ain't merchantable, and the roadless distinction isn't preventing fuels treatments. That said, a fair amount of elk have made it to my freezer from roadless areas that don't look like that.


This whole effort is about something else having nothing to do with timber extraction, local control, and fire suppression. Those are just shiny objects in front of the hook.

 

[Straight Arrow]

This whole effort is about something else having nothing to do with timber extraction, local control

Hustle on down that new road ... and drill, baby, drill!!!

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

I don’t know enough about this to know if I should be outraged or hopeful that some of the 12’ tall matrix blowdown hell that I often find myself in while out west might be cleared out/used for something beneficial thus opening the forest back to up animals who have largely abandoned large chunks of it.

You should be outraged. Either way, rescinded or not, nobody is clearing that mess.

 

[406dn]

Two quick ones.

One, the largest area affected by this will be the Tongass in AK. It is a rainforest that gets between 100 and 200 inches of rain a year. There is no fire danger there. Rescinding the roadless rule simply opens it up to commercial logging.

Two, the risk of a wildfire starting in an area quadruples when it gets a road, for obvious reasons. Some management is necessary. The clear cut logging this is intended to facilitate is not.

Just like the invasion of Venezuela... definitely all about helping the Venezuelan people and has NOTHING at all to do with the fact that they have the largest petroleum reserves of any country in the hemisphere...

This is the long and short of it. If there is lumber or minerals, attractive enough commercially, a road system will be built to support the commercial activity.

It was not long ago, at all, that Elon declared that there were too many Forest Service employees.

The world loses wild places a little with every passing year. It won't really affect my life, but for future generations, their world will be less than it should be.

 

[BuzzH]

You should be outraged. Either way, rescinded or not, nobody is clearing that mess.

Yet one lightning strike could.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

This is the long and short of it. If there is lumber or minerals, attractive enough commercially, a road system will be built to support the commercial activity.

It was not long ago, at all, that Elon declared that there were too many Forest Service employees.

The world loses wild places a little with every passing year. It won't really affect my life, but for future generations, their world will be less than it should be.

We lost 80% of the "wild" that once existed by the 1950's. What all of us have grown up with is a shadow of what used to be, even just two or three generations ago. Now we fight over the scraps. Why? Because humans are lazy and greedy beings. And that will never change.

 

[406dn]

We lost 80% of the "wild" that once existed by the 1950's. What all of us have grown up with is a shadow of what used to be, even just two or three generations ago. Now we fight over the scraps. Why? Because humans are lazy and greedy beings. And that will never change.

Sadly, you are not wrong.

 

[Forkyfinder]

It's been said over and over that they want to reduce the intensity and size of fires with increased ability to fight fires if needed.

Kinda like worrying about your dishes when the house is on fire, no?

The forest service land in most demand for fire suppression is adjacent to private land. Not stuff far from a road. Fire crews get prioritized to protecting lives, then private property....

 

[jimh406]

The forest service land in most demand for fire suppression is adjacent to private land. Not stuff far from a road. Fire crews get prioritized to protecting lives, then private property....

Once the fires get going, I think that's true but doesn't the fire get closer to private land if the fires are larger and move fast?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Once the fires get going, I think that's true but doesn't the fire get closer to private land if the fires are larger and move fast?

What "management" looks like is forest in those critical areas (life/property) being durable against forest fires.

Where do most forest fires start? In the roadless areas - or elsewhere?

Based on that - what do you think should happen?

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

A gun to my head and pick a side im a no on this. I love being in roadless areas it just feels good.
Anyways this may be a dumb question, but based on comments it sounds like a million roads will be built and every Tom, dick, and Harry will be allowed to drive on them. The way I understand it they would build roads where and when needed for the proper authorities to use to do work. Not for public use and be closed down after the work has been done?

 

[Beignet]

A gun to my head and pick a side im a no on this. I love being in roadless areas it just feels good.
Anyways this may be a dumb question, but based on comments it sounds like a million roads will be built and every Tom, dick, and Harry will be allowed to drive on them. The way I understand it they would build roads where and when needed for the proper authorities to use to do work. Not for public use and be closed down after the work has been done?

Tom & Dick, yes. Harry, no.

Ostensibly that’s how it looks. The restrictions will be gone. Who is to say a road will just be shut down again? Hard to put the lid back on things once it’s off.

 

[BuzzH]

Once the fires get going, I think that's true but doesn't the fire get closer to private land if the fires are larger and move fast?

I thought once the fires hit the managed lands they went out?

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Tom & Dick, yes. Harry, no.

Ostensibly that’s how it looks. The restrictions will be gone. Who is to say a road will just be shut down again? Hard to put the lid back on things once it’s off.

My old job says the lid is easily put back on. I had to jump thru a million hoops, know secret handshakes, have a million different keys, a million different combinations, or go to a secret meeting in a secret place to retrieve a secret key to access a secret road to access some cell towers in certain public land areas and these arent even roadless areas.
What im getting at is that you, me, and everyone else tends to go to the absolute extreme case on this stuff.
Im still a no on this but I dont see how unintentionally misleading people on what the actual proposal allows helps. If some random came across this thread they would literally think the bob marshall or wherever is gonna be accessible to the public by endless roads. Maybe im naive but i dont see anything like that ever happening.