Removing Doug Sayer from Wild Sheep Foundation for Idaho political strong-arming

[Josh Kuntz]

For those that don't know, Doug Sayer is a successful business owner from Pocatello. He is the chairman of the Wild Sheep Foundation and recently he was involved in a incident/scandal/controversy where emails revealed that he was telling Idaho Governor Butch Otter to meddle with the Idaho Fish & Game commission and the top 2 directors of IDFG. All of this stems from Mr. Sayer and a select few state legislators who are pushing hard for Idaho to allocate more auction tags. Currently, Idaho only offers 1 auction tag, for bighorn sheep and Mr. Sayer has purchased it 3 times. More info can be found HERE.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of other Hunt Talkers. For me personally, this type of behavior and political maneuvering (nicest word I could make myself write) has NO place in wildlife management. I felt strongly enough that I sent a letter (below) to the Wild Sheep Foundation and an email to the Governor.

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Wild Sheep Foundation,

Let me first start by saying I greatly appreciate and respect the conservation work you have done on behalf of wild sheep and the enormous efforts put forth by your staff and volunteers. I hope the WSF continues this excellent work and continues to inspire people to get involved in conservation and wildlife management.

Now, the reason I feel compelled to write you is based on the recent actions on Mr. Doug Sayer in regards to influencing the Idaho Fish & Game Commission and asking for the removal of 2 commissioners and the IDFG director and deputy director. These actions are despicable and show a tremendous lack of judgement and are in direct opposition the the North American Model of Wildlife Management. I do not know Mr. Sayer personally and he may very well be a smart and talented person and an asset to WSF. However, these specific actions merit swift and decisive condemnation. The Idaho hunting community is already voicing their disapproval and disgust and I would ask for the WSF to publicly stand up and state that actions such as these will not be tolerated.

Political corruption simply has no place in wildlife management, even if it can be argued that financial benefit for the state management agency might be the end result. Interfering with the fish and game commission and trying to circumvent public input is grounds for immediate termination in my opinion. Please strongly consider removing Mr. Sayer from any and all positions he holds with WSF. WSF is strong enough to withstand the loss of one wealthy individual and the greater hunting/conservation community would benefit from seeing Mr. Sayer experience some negative consequences for his inappropriate behavior.

You are welcome to contact me with any questions or thoughts.

 

[huntid73]

Being from the Pocatello area, and fishing around his lodge in the North Fork area of Salmon, I agree! He either owns or partially owns an outfitter service in the Salmon area, and I have heard he harasses hunters and even steelheaders legally running their boats. This is not the person I want to chair a CONSERVATION organization. The Wild Sheep Foundation also runs a raffle for bighorn in Idaho, and I would hate to see if he manipulates that. I would love to have seen these letters so I could add my signature to them...maybe a petition could be started?

 

[huntid73]

The sad part is, I really enjoyed listening to Gary Thornton on Randy's podcast, and this issue came out a little over a week ago, I'm hoping that it doesn't mar how people will look at organizations like the Wild Sheep Foundation or the Mule Deer Foundation etc...

 

[TheTone]

Its certainly a mess; I've not joined WSF for reasons like this, just had too many issues with some of the "work". I certainly think the mission sounds good, but other things have kept me away which is too bad.

Keep us posted if you get any response back.

 

[LopeHunter]

Am a member of WSF. Was considering life membership as my hunting days are winding down and wanting to pay it forward. This gives me pause as I detest how Utah screwed over the non-resident tag pool. Idaho, as it is, gives "up to" 10% and for bull moose in 2016 was closer to 6%. Grabbing more tags for Richie Rich to buy is a step back.

Auction one tag per species to Richie Rick and offer 1 tag per species in lottery where are limited to only 1 entry per person so even Joe SixPack has same odds as Richie Rich in the lottery.

Anything beyond 2 auction tags merely reduces the premium on the auction tags since there is usually one stud sheep or moose, etc, so having 4 or 5 sheep tags auctioned makes each bidder pause to think they are perhaps merely buying a golden ticket to shoot an average ram. Supply and demand. Keep the supply tight in the auctions.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I agree this is troubling, but before folks throw all of Wild Sheep Foundation under the bus, please reach out to their staff and get their take on it. Montana Wild Sheep has been a great ally in many fights both at the state legislature and at the federal level, as has Gray and the gang at WSF.

 

[406LIFE]

I was just at WSF last week to renew my membership. I would also like to hear an official statement from them on this. I very much value the mission, but if there are undertones like this coming from leadership, official or not, I think I would be very reticent to ally with them.

 

[grandejuan]

I have been involved with the old FNAWS since the old days when Jerry Waite was president. I have known and worked for wild sheep and while there are always two sides to each story, this one is really starting to smell. We finally get the WSF over the hump again and this comes up. I don't know if Bob De Grazia is still alive(?) or active in Idaho, but I remember what a hassle it was to get the first raffle tag thru the legislature and now this guy comes along and compromises the whole program. Mr. Sayer has a lot of " Splainin" to do. It would be best to resign from the WSF chair to remove all questions. If he can defend himself he can do it without tainting the WSF. GJ

 

[El Jason]

I agree this is troubling, but before folks throw all of Wild Sheep Foundation under the bus, please reach out to their staff and get their take on it. Montana Wild Sheep has been a great ally in many fights both at the state legislature and at the federal level, as has Gray and the gang at WSF.

I agree Ben. They have some great folks on staff. Give them an opportunity to address the issue before you paint them with the same brush.

 

[Oak]

The Wild Sheep Foundation also runs a raffle for bighorn in Idaho, and I would hate to see if he manipulates that.

It's important to understand that while WSF has many chapters and affiliates throughout the country and in Canada, those organizations are autonomous of WSF national. The ID raffle is run by ID WSF, not national.

 

[MTGomer]

I don't believe there should be any auction tags for anything.

I'm not certain you understand how big game, and particularly sheep conservation is funded.
Hint; it's not your $10 app fee.

Hopefully the right thing is done here. I don't know Mr. Sayer, but I do know Gray on an acquaintance level and believe that he is a great guy.
MT chapter presidemt is as well.

A WSF event is probably on of the best times you will ever have around other people.

I agree completely with what Ben said.

Hopefully there's accountability. But the
Organization as a whole is wonderful and is really on a level of its own that I'm not sure any other species specific organization even holds a candle to.

 

[Bambistew]

Those auction tag fees are having a negative effect on sheep populations. Show me the proof that they're putting more sheep on the mountain with those tags...

 

[WapitiBob]

I think most of us are cognizant of Utah-SFW, UDWR Wildlife Board, collusion, auction tags, and "conservation."

 

[warmer]

i don't believe there should be any auction tags for anything. When you start selling the public's game to the highest bidder you are bound to run in to this. If an auction tag is good, then why not 2. If 2 is good , why not 3. Why not sell all of the best sheep tags to the highest bidder? Just think of all of the good things that could be done with all that money. How can we even act surprised by this?

this!

 

[1_pointer]

It'd be a pretty sure bet that some folks that have posted on this thread would have posted something much different had the letters "WSF" been "SFW"...

Those auction tag fees are having a negative effect on sheep populations. Show me the proof that they're putting more sheep on the mountain with those tags...

I too would be interested in this.

 

[MTGomer]

Show me the proof that they're putting more sheep on the mountain with those tags...

https://www.wildsheepfoundation.org/mission-and-programs/conservation-programs



The page has been reconfigure since I was on it last quite a while ago. Somewhere is a .pdf of every program funded and a dollar amount.
If you do a little looking on what those programs have done, you'll find your answer.
Carmen Island would be a good thing to start with.

 

[MTGomer]

I think most of us are cognizant of Utah-SFW, UDWR Wildlife Board, collusion, auction tags, and "conservation."

Relevance to this or are you getting your letters switched around?

SFW= Sportsmen for Wildlife

WSF= Wild Sheep Foundation


I know that where I hunt sheep populations have doubled since they worked to buyout the domestic sheep allotment grazing his maggots directly north of YNP.

Again, I hope Doug is removed and I think there's enough auction tags as is. But let's not pretend that when someone buys the Montana bighorn tag for 280 or 350k, that they aren't doing more for sheep than all of us ever will combined.

Sheep don't get moved from wild horse or the Sun to the Madison or wherever with your $10 application fee. Your $10 application fee barely pays for itself.

Amazing that a group of hunters who seem to usually be a fairly informed bunch have to be told how hunting is conservation and that that conservation takes money.

 

[BuzzH]

Sheep don't get moved from wild horse or the Sun to the Madison or wherever with your $10 application fee. Your $10 application fee barely pays for itself.

Amazing that a group of hunters who seem to usually be a fairly informed bunch have to be told how hunting is conservation and that that conservation takes money.

Bullchit, that's not even close to true.

The sheep in the breaks were transplanted before an auction tag existed, so where the sheep in upper rock creek, lower rock creek, Anaconda, Plains, Perma, Petty Creek, Eddie Mountain, etc. etc.

So, to say that these tags are necessary if we want sheep transplanted is pure crap...they're a luxury item for the wealthy hunter. The "positive" spin off is they provide another pot of money for IMO, some equally luxurious "conservation" projects.

I'm reluctantly supportive of the Gov. and Raffle tags within very tight confines. Mainly that there needs to be massive over-sight on where the money goes, very strict and permanent limits on the number issued, etc.

The problem with them has already been brought up, that they are equivalent to a drug in their addiction. We are now being told that conservation stops without them, we need more, etc.

A person in the position of being an auction tag purchaser, as well as being deeply involved in WSF, gerrymandering the politics of the commission to get more tags?

That's unacceptable, and really clarifies why many have been either opposed, or very hesitant, to support the whole idea of these special tags.

There are times, when the "good" of these types of tags are pretty tough to justify, no matter how much they supposedly do for conservation...this is one of those times.

 

[MTGomer]

That was then.
This is now.

Now, FWP will hardly do a collar study unless they can get a MSU grad student to partially fund it. Not their fault, but we all know how money has increasingly become an issue in the last few years for FWP.

Species like sheep, goats and moose simply don't pay for themselves through license fees.

We had roads, trains, an army, navy, public land and many other government agencies and services before a federal income tax too. Yet here we are, paying 20-39.6% and those things are still underfunded.
Times- they change.






Good letter the OP wrote.

 

[BuzzH]

That was then.
This is now.

Now, FWP will hardly do a collar study unless they can get a MSU grad student to partially fund it. Not their fault, but we all know how money has increasingly become an issue in the last few years for FWP.

Species like sheep, goats and moose simply don't pay for themselves through license fees.

We had roads, trains, an army, navy, public land and many other government agencies and services before a federal income tax too. Yet here we are, paying 20-39.6% and those things are still underfunded.
Times- they change.

One thing you forgot to mention that hasn't changed much since I started hunting Montana in 1979 is the cost of a resident hunting license in Montana.

You know what else hasn't changed? The management of elk, deer, sheep, goats, moose, and pronghorn. Same seasons, (additional day for elk and deer).

Maybe instead of Montana hunters being subsidized by governors tags and NR's, they start paying their freight on the luxury tags, like sheep, moose and goat. Gee, there's a thought.

You can try to justify the gov. tags all you want, but they have done harm to conservation as well. Don't believe me? Ask yourself how SFW fast tracked itself into the "conservation" front. What was the catalyst they used to become relevant?

Governors and Raffle tags are not that significant in the over-all budget of GF agencies and are not "saving" conservation...far from it. Just look at the FWP budget and what % of the budget the gov. tags provide. Hunters and Anglers did fine without them, and still could, easily. Having residents pay $2 more for common licenses would trump the revenue of all the auction and raffle permits combined.

Maybe its time for MT residents to jump into 2016 with the fees they pay? Yes?