Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!
- Thread starter dranrab
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El Jason
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Absolutely nothing. Not even sure why you’d ask that.
Your post provides no intellectual discourse to mine, which I purposely left it wide open for. Your post also does nothing to give me any more hope in the intelligence and/or future of our country.
All this to say, you are clearly a political troll and I have no idea why I’m wasting time responding to you.
Hilljackoutlaw
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406dn
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There is some irony, that the assumption of any person in the country illegally is guilty as soon as they are accused of a crime, but unless Trump is convicted of a sexual crime, it is a nothing burger.
Using your standard of proof, Tump has raped some fraction of that number of women, by himself.
bayoublaster7527
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Here is where your reasonable logic falls apart in many blue states and cities. How does the local or state law enforcement officials know whether the criminal offender is an illegal immigrant or not? In many blue states and cities such as Denver and Colorado, local and state law enforcement is barred from asking an individual about their immigration status. That is generally a provision of state and and city “sanctuary” statutes. Can’t speak to Minnesota and Minneapolis specific statutes and “sanctuary” status.
Bonasababy
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Good question, simple to answer. If they are detained for a crime (where they have probable cause) the LEO has authority to enforce--once in custody they can check status.
And by the way, the prohibition against asking people status based on race is not only in certain jurisdictions, its settled law across the country.
See https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/13-16285/13-16285-2015-04-15.html
Nuts
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In my experience having worked alongside immigrants. They would openly answer the immigration status question. We would sit at lunch and talk. No offense taken. Not scared to answer even if it was no I am not documented. Heck half the time they would have a silly grin on there face like a kid caught stealing cookies. The ones who did it the right way were proud to answer and wanted to show you documentation. When a local now senator had illegal crews working with out working papers, insurance or documentation I went an interviewed them and recorded it on camera. Asked them specific questions. I then posted it on Youtube. I had to take it down when I was threatened with a lawsuit. I wasn't tricking the workers as they claimed. They were happy to answer. And stated nobody cares. Its fine. When said now senator was asked about undocumented workers at an ABC meeting he acted astonished and surprised that this was going on in our area. I wish I had pointed out he hired them but I let it go. I used an alias on Youtube so I couldn't hardly pull the video out. But I knew right then and there this now Senator who was bringing change to politics was a typical politician. I say all that to say. Now those same questions can't be asked because there is actual consequences to being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.
bayoublaster7527
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Carnage2011
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First off I think Trump is a piece of shit and should spend the rest of his life in prison if even 1% of the info in the Epstein files is legit.
With that being said, your comparison is not even close. If someone is here “illegally” then they have committed a crime. It’s not an assumption at all. The key word being illegally.
406dn
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Being guilty of one crime, is not proof of guilt on a different crime. If he had posted that x number of illegal aliens had been accused of murder or rape, that might be accurate.
My point was, that if an accusation is proof of guilt, then Trump is a serial rapist.
Carnage2011
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Agreed. I didn’t read your initial comment like that but after your explanation I can see what you are getting at.
Wind Gypsy
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I'm not too worried about having men in black tahoes show up at doors for hunttalk posts but Trump admin sure took a turn from their early talking points on "hate speech" after Charlie Kirk's murder. Then there's the stories about college kids getting their visa's revoked for daring to have an opinion against ethnic cleansing and plenty from other's threatening to get people blacklisted from society from social media posts that dont fit their narrative.
All that to say, we're entering a total surveillance state where the machine and AI is going to rule over what people are willing to say and criticize publicly.
Straight Arrow
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Although George Orwell did not imagine or write of AI, his book Nineteen Eighty-four certainly predicts the Orwellian Era you describe!
Handlebar
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I very much appreciate the reply.So, right or wrong, I thought about this question a fair bit longer while sitting on the chair lift today.
And I'm no less confused.
Let's assume that his comment was hyperbole. What was the point he was trying to make. The only "point", that I could potentially see, is that his followers are loyal to a fault. Loyal when all reason and common sense suggests you shouldn't be.
Is that the point of his comment? What else is the hyperbolic comment in reference to?
I read this with my coffee this morning. Pretty good wisdom from a former president.
George W. Bush: What I Learned from George Washington
Few qualities have inspired me more than Washington’s humility, writes the forty-third president of the United States of the first.www.thefp.com
I took his statement to mean that he was extremely popular with his base not literally could he go out and kill somebody.
It has been very common for the press to take snippets of statements and not include the entire statement for example the “very fine people” comment during Charlottesville, or the blood bath comment, Trump was referring to the effect on the auto industry if China could make cars and bring them through Mexico. My point was that when you have a divisive president/candidate some of that is fueled by how he is reported by the press which in turn colors people perception of him. It is a feedback loop.
Trump is a radical departure from the norm of American politics. The cult of personality is such that you either strongly love him or hate him. He is and has been a threat to the entire structure, interestingly the status quo Republicans hate him as much as many Democrats, watch John Thune etc. He is such a perceived threat to the power base of both parties that both oppose him one quietly the other in a stealthy mode. Many of the Chamber of Commerce Republicans want to see him fail as much as they wanted the Tea Party to fail.
I find Trump a very narcissistic ego driven man, you must have an ego to think you should be president, but he has certainly brought it to a new level. Your link about Washington is interesting because I find him to be the exact opposite he did not want power and he also went against the grain, he fought for a rebellion and then crushed one in western PA, he loudly cautioned against foreign entanglements much to the chagrin of New England traders and sadly imo a policy that we abandoned. The other man was Jimmy Carter perhaps the best man that was ever elected and certainly one of the worst presidents that we ever had.
Personally, I am in favor of his policies, but I am not sure that you could have such a reversal of 50 years of status quo without a very disruptive president. I am pro-Ice because I believe in the Law of Supply and Demand I think we sold blue collar America down the pipe, between free trade, off shoring and importing low wage workers, these actions have been beneficial to the financial class but not the rank and file. We have incentivized illegal immigration with give aways: public benefits, medical, anchor babies etc. I know that other member will talk about jobs that Americans don’t want, GDP etc. but that is not what I see. I have lived all over the country Deep South, Front Range, and the Northern Prairies.
I did learn through the course of the conversation about how judicial vs administrative warrants work and the argument of 4th Amendment rights. I asked the question if non-citizens are entitled to the same constitutional rights and privileges as citizens, do they have 2nd Amendment right too? Do we cheapen something when anyone can receive them when their first act was to break the law and enter illegally?
Sorry for the long response, but the fact that you said you were thinking about my question made me realize even with the disagreements here on the forum I have been thinking too. I posted earlier that I have a son who is beginning his education/training and will be entering the work force in a couple of years it is difficult not to contemplate what happens/direction.
I hope the snow was good.
Bonasababy
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For those who blindly believe the Trump administrations war on immigrants is based on an outsized participation in crime by them...a couple of good analyses of the actual impact of immigrants on crime here:
corndog1
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This is not a one way street. Lefties call anyone disagreeing with them far right extremist and Nazis. I can't stand either party and the hypocrisy from both sides is astounding. People could argue in circles for years and nothing will be accomplished.
Carnage2011
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Illegal immigrants. That’s the issue…I have zero issue with people coming here legally. If “illegal” immigrants are committing crimes it could have been avoided if they weren’t here. That’s a crime that shouldn’t have taken place. I’m not comparing them to a US Citizen because citizens have a right to be here. If 6 illegal immigrants commit a crime, that’s 6 more than there should be.
I feel that is conflating two variables though. Yes, illegal immigration is a crime. So is speeding- I’m not sure either one is indicative of the likelihood of committing violent crime. Illegal immigrants have not been shown to engage in violent crime more than the general population as far as I’m aware (I’ve heard of studies that show less).
Not giving free pass to illegal immigration, but the violent crime angle is on weak logical footing imo.
Straight Arrow
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IMO, the system for vetting, certifying, and allowing "people coming here legally" is woefully ineffective due to a structure not capable of handling so many who wish to live as US citizens. That system has been too little, too broken, too long. That failed system is what has resulted in border problems and in immigrants entering illegally. By in large, they have little other reasonably expeditious means of becoming "citizens".
I have recently conjectured that if I were from Venezuela, Haiti, or Somalia ... it might be that I would be an "illegal immigrant" living under the radar in Butte, America!
I have been wrestling with that same thing lately. I’m certain I would be if that’s what it took to give my family a better life.
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