Ive been a member for a number of years ,this year Im co-chairman for our chapter. But begainning to wonder if it's not time for the R.M.E.F. to get more involed with license's. I see where Colarado is cutting non-resident license and giving then to the resident's. Not tyring to get a argument started but I wonder how much money is brought in from east of the Mississppi ? Anyone thats ever been on these comittees no its not alot of fun trying to get everything lined up and ready for the banquet. If our chances are less then they all ready are ,why would we want to beat our brains out trying to get it all togather. I enjoy hunting out west and as you all know its tuff enough to get drawn, now it will be even tuffer. If I was a resident it would be ok with me, but as a non resident it dosen't seem quite right. Like I said Im not trying to start anything but just wondered how everyone else felt about it.
R.M.E.F. Whats Your Thoughts
- Thread starter Bill M
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
I think the goal of any conservation organization should be to help manage wildlife and the habitat they need...the RMEF needs to stick to that and not worry about tag allocations.
I think its pretty sad that anyone has the attitude of "why should I do something for wildlife when I dont get a tag". I buy hunting licenses in several states a year just to APPLY for a tag...and I dont gripe about it. The money is going to a good cause, and theres a really good chance I'll never draw in some of those states.
Sadly, the health of our game herds is now about 4th on the list of importance to most hunting organizations and Game and Fish Departments...when it should be the number one priority.
You have to like GREED.
I think its pretty sad that anyone has the attitude of "why should I do something for wildlife when I dont get a tag". I buy hunting licenses in several states a year just to APPLY for a tag...and I dont gripe about it. The money is going to a good cause, and theres a really good chance I'll never draw in some of those states.
Sadly, the health of our game herds is now about 4th on the list of importance to most hunting organizations and Game and Fish Departments...when it should be the number one priority.
You have to like GREED.
Bambistew
Well-known member
You didn’t want to start an argument???
So let me get this straight... you don't care about the animals unless you can hunt them and you're the co-chairman of your chapter? This is really interesting stuff… I thought that’s what the RMEF was all about, giving time and money with no reward other than helping wildlife? Sounds to me like you should be forced to resign from your position! This proves to me once again what the RMEF is all about!!! ME ME ME... and Money!!! Elk and their habitat come in about third or fourth down the list just like Buzz mentioned. I’ve never been a part of the RMEF and never will be because this is exactly what I see and have seen in the chapter in MT. Its more about the money and the connections than anything.
I’ve seen first hand some of the ‘projects’ that the RMEF has completed. They buy up conservation easements, which are all fine and dandy, but all they accomplished was giving the property owner money for the easement and setting him up with an elk hunting paradise enjoyed by he and his high paying customers! Did the elk really win? Now these same ranches are over run with elk, because all they hunted were the big bulls, and now they ask the state to bail them out with late season hunts.
Since you and your state group have raised money for elk that reside in other states you think that you and your fellow NR buddies from east of the Mississippi deserve the right to hunt those elk over the residents where the elk reside? Sounds like the same argument that we hear time and time again about elk and animals living on federal land… Let me break it to you... the state owns the elk, the state doesn't ask for money for their elk from the RMEF, and the state doesn't have to let any NR hunt them if they don't want to!
I lost a lot of respect for the RMEF when they built their new $14M 'headquarters' building this last year. What was wrong with the old one? If they were really worried about the elk why would the need to build a big azz building? I would have thought that they could make due and work out of a basement if they were really worried about ‘putting money on the ground’! IMO they’re getting a little too big for their britches and the next thing you know they'll be in the political spot light. I’m really surprised that they kept out as long as they did on the wolf issue.
I do give them credit for what they have accomplished. They not only help elk (which IMO didn't need all that much help as they are very adaptable and are thriving on their own) but other animals that need help and don't get it from anywhere else, like the mule deer which are in dire need of help and get nothing..
IMO the RMEF has switched their main goal from putting elk and their habitat first to money being priority number one about 8-10 years ago... I understand that money makes the world go round, but all you have to do is look at the $14M headquarters building they built to understand that they aren't spending it in the right place IMO...
I think if the RMEF gets involved with licenses they'll loose all credibility in the west. I know they would with me, if I didn’t have their money grubbing ways figured out already.
I don't understand why NR's piss and moan about the majority of licenses going to residents, their state owns the animals and that’s the end of it! If you don't like the way it's set up move! I apply in a few states every year, I don’t' complain if I don't get drawn or not, I make a back up plan and hope for the best. If it comes down to it I can hunt my 'home' state that year. It’s not like I won't be hunting if I can't pull a tag in CO or MT etc...
So let me get this straight... you don't care about the animals unless you can hunt them and you're the co-chairman of your chapter? This is really interesting stuff… I thought that’s what the RMEF was all about, giving time and money with no reward other than helping wildlife? Sounds to me like you should be forced to resign from your position! This proves to me once again what the RMEF is all about!!! ME ME ME... and Money!!! Elk and their habitat come in about third or fourth down the list just like Buzz mentioned. I’ve never been a part of the RMEF and never will be because this is exactly what I see and have seen in the chapter in MT. Its more about the money and the connections than anything.
I’ve seen first hand some of the ‘projects’ that the RMEF has completed. They buy up conservation easements, which are all fine and dandy, but all they accomplished was giving the property owner money for the easement and setting him up with an elk hunting paradise enjoyed by he and his high paying customers! Did the elk really win? Now these same ranches are over run with elk, because all they hunted were the big bulls, and now they ask the state to bail them out with late season hunts.
Since you and your state group have raised money for elk that reside in other states you think that you and your fellow NR buddies from east of the Mississippi deserve the right to hunt those elk over the residents where the elk reside? Sounds like the same argument that we hear time and time again about elk and animals living on federal land… Let me break it to you... the state owns the elk, the state doesn't ask for money for their elk from the RMEF, and the state doesn't have to let any NR hunt them if they don't want to!
I lost a lot of respect for the RMEF when they built their new $14M 'headquarters' building this last year. What was wrong with the old one? If they were really worried about the elk why would the need to build a big azz building? I would have thought that they could make due and work out of a basement if they were really worried about ‘putting money on the ground’! IMO they’re getting a little too big for their britches and the next thing you know they'll be in the political spot light. I’m really surprised that they kept out as long as they did on the wolf issue.
I do give them credit for what they have accomplished. They not only help elk (which IMO didn't need all that much help as they are very adaptable and are thriving on their own) but other animals that need help and don't get it from anywhere else, like the mule deer which are in dire need of help and get nothing..
IMO the RMEF has switched their main goal from putting elk and their habitat first to money being priority number one about 8-10 years ago... I understand that money makes the world go round, but all you have to do is look at the $14M headquarters building they built to understand that they aren't spending it in the right place IMO...
I think if the RMEF gets involved with licenses they'll loose all credibility in the west. I know they would with me, if I didn’t have their money grubbing ways figured out already.
I don't understand why NR's piss and moan about the majority of licenses going to residents, their state owns the animals and that’s the end of it! If you don't like the way it's set up move! I apply in a few states every year, I don’t' complain if I don't get drawn or not, I make a back up plan and hope for the best. If it comes down to it I can hunt my 'home' state that year. It’s not like I won't be hunting if I can't pull a tag in CO or MT etc...
noharleyyet
Well-known member
"If I was a resident it would be ok with me, but as a non-resident it doesn't seem quite right."
Bambistew
Well-known member
If you want to get into an organization thats all about money and tags there's a little group you'd probably be intersted in, located in UT. Get tags and sell them to the highest bidder!!! Ye haw!!! The elk and other animals win again!
BigHornRam
Well-known member
The elk foundation has done some good things over the years and continue to do so. They are working on tieing up some land down in Sula right now that would have most likely gone private for good. But like any organization there is always the human element. I don't care much for the fancy new headquarters either. Nothings perfect in the world including the Elk Foundation but it's only as good as the members that make it up.
Delw
Member
BuzzH said:
Buzz well said
conservation organizations should have absolutely no power or say on tags what so ever. We have a few nimrods here in AZ that believe that they should have tag control. all I have to say is F them.
That damn group from utah is already trying to put togther a group in AZ of hunters to dictate the tags and how much they should cost etc.
And they are doing a pretty good job since most arizonians are idiots and will do anything for a better chance at a tag even if its at the cost of screwing someone else.
I also dont like the fact that these groups keep on getting more and more special permits to auction off. I believe we should keep it at one tag per group and not allow any more groups.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
They do some good, but they have their faults - like was said above about conservation easements or even their own Double H ranch - elk hunts for the VIPs and high rollers. Lock up National Forest and state lands so the rest of us can't get to it and create a private elk paradise.
Nemont
Well-known member
RMEF IMO is typical of what happens to many "grass roots" conservation organizations. They are designed to do good but end up doing well. I believe they showed their true colors not only on their new HQ building but in the area they chose to build it in.
They should not ever be involved with tag allocations. Look at what kind of BS SWF has been pulling in Utah. Now there is a SWF chapter in Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico and Alaska and they are attempting to organizing chapters in Montana, Nevada and Washington.
As for the attitude that tag allocation is unfair to NR hunters then move. Simple solution to the problem if Elk hunting is a priority in your life then move to where the elk are and you have more opportunity to hunt for them.
Nemont
They should not ever be involved with tag allocations. Look at what kind of BS SWF has been pulling in Utah. Now there is a SWF chapter in Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico and Alaska and they are attempting to organizing chapters in Montana, Nevada and Washington.
As for the attitude that tag allocation is unfair to NR hunters then move. Simple solution to the problem if Elk hunting is a priority in your life then move to where the elk are and you have more opportunity to hunt for them.
Nemont
BigHornRam
Well-known member
"If you want to get into an organization thats all about money and tags there's a little group you'd probably be intersted in, located in UT. Get tags and sell them to the highest bidder!!! Ye haw!!! The elk and other animals win again!"
Bambi,
I don't think your comment here is entirely fair or acurate. Most non-hunters would see little difference in your African hunt vs. what's happening in Utah. Most local African's couldn't come up with the cash you paid for your hunt in a hundred years. So did the animals you hunted in Africa "win"? Think about it. Pitting this way of hunting vs. that way is only going to guarentee one thing. NO MORE HUNTING PERIOD!
Bambi,
I don't think your comment here is entirely fair or acurate. Most non-hunters would see little difference in your African hunt vs. what's happening in Utah. Most local African's couldn't come up with the cash you paid for your hunt in a hundred years. So did the animals you hunted in Africa "win"? Think about it. Pitting this way of hunting vs. that way is only going to guarentee one thing. NO MORE HUNTING PERIOD!
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
Comparing what SFW has done with Utah versus hunting in Africa is a pretty weak.
The difference is, the average American hunter has the money to afford a tag through the various state drawings...but that isnt whats happening with SFW.
They're auctioning off a pile of tags in the name of "conservation" and pricing out people and directly taking tags from hunters that would otherwise have a chance at them.
Another key difference is the ownership of wildlife issue in the United States VS. Africa. The U.S. citizens fund, own, and have invested time, money, and effort into them for the benefit of the species as well as the benefit of ALL citizens.
African hunting is tightly controlled by PRIVATE landowners, outfitters, etc. for pure profit. The average citizen of some African country doesnt fund or otherwise invest much, if anything into wildlife or the management of wildlife.
I know you like to bust peoples chops all the time, but in this case, you're stretching things really thin and making unfair comparisons.
The one thing that will take away hunting for the average guy more and more is the increase in the number of auction tags, extremely high fees, etc.
To tell you the truth, when hunting comes to the point of having to spend 10k for a bull tag at a SFW auction...is the day I sell all my stuff and get serious about fall fishing.
Comparing what SFW has done with Utah versus hunting in Africa is a pretty weak.
The difference is, the average American hunter has the money to afford a tag through the various state drawings...but that isnt whats happening with SFW.
They're auctioning off a pile of tags in the name of "conservation" and pricing out people and directly taking tags from hunters that would otherwise have a chance at them.
Another key difference is the ownership of wildlife issue in the United States VS. Africa. The U.S. citizens fund, own, and have invested time, money, and effort into them for the benefit of the species as well as the benefit of ALL citizens.
African hunting is tightly controlled by PRIVATE landowners, outfitters, etc. for pure profit. The average citizen of some African country doesnt fund or otherwise invest much, if anything into wildlife or the management of wildlife.
I know you like to bust peoples chops all the time, but in this case, you're stretching things really thin and making unfair comparisons.
The one thing that will take away hunting for the average guy more and more is the increase in the number of auction tags, extremely high fees, etc.
To tell you the truth, when hunting comes to the point of having to spend 10k for a bull tag at a SFW auction...is the day I sell all my stuff and get serious about fall fishing.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Buzz,
I am confused. First you say the states own the animals and now you say all citizens own the animals in the U. S.. So maybe that is why some non residents are getting discouraged. What particular wildlife organizations do you currently support? Does Bambi support conservation orgs. in Africa since he hunted there? If he does and they say sorry, you can't come over her to hunt anymore, would he continue to support those organizations? I doubt it. So how does this vary from Bill's situation. I think he asked a fair question in his original post and you guy's jumped on him like usual. Putting together a fund raiser is hard work and when it's not appreciated I can see why a guy like Bill might lose interest.
And the elk is what suffers.
I am confused. First you say the states own the animals and now you say all citizens own the animals in the U. S.. So maybe that is why some non residents are getting discouraged. What particular wildlife organizations do you currently support? Does Bambi support conservation orgs. in Africa since he hunted there? If he does and they say sorry, you can't come over her to hunt anymore, would he continue to support those organizations? I doubt it. So how does this vary from Bill's situation. I think he asked a fair question in his original post and you guy's jumped on him like usual. Putting together a fund raiser is hard work and when it's not appreciated I can see why a guy like Bill might lose interest.
And the elk is what suffers.
BuzzH
Well-known member
BHR,
Whats confusing? The states own the animals and the U.S. Citizens provide habitat via public lands management. Most BLM, FS, etc. districts have wildlife biologists in charge of managing wildlife and wildlife habitat on Federal lands. Not sure why you'd be confused that every U.S. citizen has a vested interest in wildlife.
Thats very different than the situation in Africa...dont you think?
I support the state game and fish departments in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and Oregon each year. I've supplied funding more sporatically to British Columbia, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota and Washington.
I also donate at least a $100 a year to the access yes program in Wyoming, belong to one local conservation organization, the MDF, B&C, MBA, DU, etc.
I admit I dont do enough, but I also dont bitch about not being able to draw tags either.
Whats confusing? The states own the animals and the U.S. Citizens provide habitat via public lands management. Most BLM, FS, etc. districts have wildlife biologists in charge of managing wildlife and wildlife habitat on Federal lands. Not sure why you'd be confused that every U.S. citizen has a vested interest in wildlife.
Thats very different than the situation in Africa...dont you think?
I support the state game and fish departments in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and Oregon each year. I've supplied funding more sporatically to British Columbia, Alaska, North Dakota, South Dakota and Washington.
I also donate at least a $100 a year to the access yes program in Wyoming, belong to one local conservation organization, the MDF, B&C, MBA, DU, etc.
I admit I dont do enough, but I also dont bitch about not being able to draw tags either.
Couple of questions and a comment??
Comment: Check out the list of groups getting Conservation Permits in UT; SFW aren't the only ones with their hands in the cookie jar. RMEF and FNAWS both have tags.
Questions:
Does the 'bad' outweigh the 'good' when it comes to the RMEF?
Other than RMEF and TNC what are some conservation groups that have purchasing/protecting habitat as their #1 priority?
Comment: Check out the list of groups getting Conservation Permits in UT; SFW aren't the only ones with their hands in the cookie jar. RMEF and FNAWS both have tags.
Questions:
Does the 'bad' outweigh the 'good' when it comes to the RMEF?
Other than RMEF and TNC what are some conservation groups that have purchasing/protecting habitat as their #1 priority?
Delw
Member
SFW sucks, they are trying to make it look like they are going to help the hunter, but they are actually screwing the hunters int he long run.
RMEF is getting just as bad. Wait till some other group wants to auction tags off for conservation like ...... Illegal aliens
had to throw that in there.
RMEF is getting just as bad. Wait till some other group wants to auction tags off for conservation like ...... Illegal aliens
had to throw that in there.
DRAFTSTUD
Well-known member
I have been giving and donating to groups like the RMEF for years, but I see a trend that for each Group that starts to Magnify their animal of choice, it follows that the chances of opportunity to afford to hunt that animal goes down. Get yourself a B&C Whitetail $4000, Get yourself a B&C Elk at Turners place $13,500, ect. Now it was'nt so many years ago that I could put together a group of my everyday working Joe friends and make a hunt out of state. When we connected everyone was happy, but now if you don't score "BIG" you had a suck ass hunt! That is how I see some of these groups doing to the mindset of alot of hunters, I hunt to hunt, pure and simple. I love to serve Elk to people who have never have or will hunt them. When hunting in CO for elk, give me a big cow anytime, we used to go to Alabama for a Rut hunt for around $750, can't find a hunt for that cost anymore, Thanks Buckmasters! Does anyone else see this trend? I can afford to hunt when and where I please, but if it means leaving my friends behind, it just does'nt excite me anymore. John
That is how I see some of these groups doing to the mindset of alot of hunters, I hunt to hunt, pure and simple. I love to serve Elk to people who have never have or will hunt them. When hunting in CO for elk, give me a big cow anytime, we used to go to Alabama for a Rut hunt for around $750, can't find a hunt for that cost anymore, Thanks Buckmasters! Does anyone else see this trend? I can afford to hunt when and where I please, but if it means leaving my friends behind, it just does'nt excite me anymore. JohnSimilar threads
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