Public land friend-ethics

[beagle001]

Hey folks,

Didn't want to take away from the other thread about appreciating good hunting partners, but I've got a question regarding the ethics of hunting public land. This topic was brought up a while back on the Full Draw Full Time podcast, but it's become more relevant to me lately.

So, the topic at hand is "your spots" on public land. Obviously, it's public land, so it's everyone's, but when does a spot become "your spot?"

Direction/background on topic...

My best friend (BFF) and I (referred to as "We" most often) always dreamed about going on out-of-state hunts, whether whitetail or other big game. Finally, 4 year ago we were asked to go on a hunt with two other buddies (one being Friend A). Initial plans were to go to Kentucky, but the hurricane rolled through that week, so on a whim, we went to North Dakota. Had a fun hunt, though a mediocre area, but that was enough to light the fire.

The next year, BFF and I planned a hunt to South Dakota, and we had two buddies (one being Friend B) we wanted to bring, but due to unforeseen circumstances, Friend B couldn't go, so we asked "A" to join. We had a blast, and fell in love with South Dakota.

Enter Friend C, who has a bit of a jealous bone, tends to think outloud, and always wants to be included, but is usually best handled in small doses. Good guy, but hard to handle sometimes.

Anyway, "C" calls me and BFF before Christmas and wants to start planning a hunt already for next year. We oblige and make plans to go to Kansas during the rut. Friend C also invites his best friend to be part of this excursion. Well, fast forward a few months, we ran into some road blocks with where we were going to hunt Kansas, so we began looking for backup plans. Lots of ideas came up, but BFF and my yearning to get back to SD, won out over best judgment, and we settled on taking Friend C and his friend to the same place we hunted the year before.

Had a good hunt, but spending a week with C plus-1 was... less than ideal.
Went back last year, just the two of us (much more relaxing) and we should draw rifle tags this year, along with Friend A.
Since then, C always wants to go with us, no matter what we have planned, and automatically thinks he is "in."

BFF and I have decided that we only want Friend B to go back there with us, since he was supposed to be with the first year, and Friend A, because he is great to travel with, and he took us to his spot in ND way back.

My question (sorry long winded, and slightly too much like Young and the Restless), is one year of going to a place enough to make it "your spot?" Does Friend C have any stake in that claim since he was with on year two, and we weren't supposed to hunt there to begin with? Should we feel obligated to include him in future hunts? Where does everyone stand on these issues?I think if C-plus-1 (the same 1) wanted to go back on their own, I would be ok with it, as long as they keep their mouth shut.

 

[beagle001]

Also, any advice with how to break your friend's heart when you decide you don't want to go on travel hunts with him anymore?

 

[BuzzH]

There's a learning curve on things like this.

For me personally, if I hunt with someone on a public land spot they found, I never go back unless:

1. I'm invited.

2. I call and ask them if its OK.

The absolute last thing I would ever want to do is show up in a spot a friend has shown me and have them hunting the same area...I would feel like an idiot if that happened.

I've also made it a new point, that I don't take anyone to a spot that I find on public land unless I don't care if they go back unannounced.

If its a spot I want to keep to myself, I hunt it solo or with immediate family.

 

[beagle001]

I hear you there! Strange conundrum, being a midwestern guy, you'd think the pressure wouldn't be so bad, but everyone finds out you go on hunting trips out west, and everyone wants to go with you. Hard to get the point across that the land and spots are out there to find... just gotta do some leg work

 

[Gerald Martin]

There's a learning curve on things like this.

For me personally, if I hunt with someone on a public land spot they found, I never go back unless:

1. I'm invited.

2. I call and ask them if its OK.

The absolute last thing I would ever want to do is show up in a spot a friend has shown me and have them hunting the same area...I would feel like an idiot if that happened.

I've also made it a new point, that I don't take anyone to a spot that I find on public land unless I don't care if they go back unannounced.

If its a spot I want to keep to myself, I hunt it solo or with immediate family.

My experience to a T.



Beagle 001- you are going to have to decide for yourself whether you want to continue to be the finder/provider of hunting spots for friend C and have him be a regular on all your trips. If you are stressed about friend C joining you and would rather not because of his personality, the best thing you can do is be up front with him and tell him why you want to go with your original choice of partners. At some point having a hunting partner you don't enjoy will be too much and you are likely to see a relationship completely ruined when you are fed up. If he's not man enough to appreciate you being honest with him and consider what it takes to be a more desirable hunting partner then you need to consider how much more you are going to invest in your friendship. Good hunting partners are just like any good relationship. Give and take and everyone works to help others become successful. If you are like almost everyone else, the financial sacrifice, time away from family, and potential degredation of a hunt you have been planning for and dreaming of all year is not something to waste on someone you don't enjoy being around. If you don't have a fun hunt you would have been better off staying home, working and spending time with your family rather than have a bad hunt.

 

[u1299]

Over my lifetime I've found a couple favorite spots in my home State of Montana where I hunt year after year, and have done so for well over 40 years. Hunting has always been a family thing with me, first with my Dad and brother and now more with my own son and daughters. I have hunted and fished with a few close friends over my hunting life and have never really ever got burned or put in an awkward situation because of anything any of them did. Maybe I was just lucky but I think it had more to do with knowing who my real friends were and what they were all about. It might sound a bit korny but we really do-did think alike and have the same values when it comes to hunting and fishing so there are never any surprises. I almost exclusively hunt now with my son and occasionally my brother, and if either is unavailable, by myself, so there are never any issues. Well maybe 1 issue with my wife and two daughters who really don't like a 60 yr. old hunting for extended periods by himself. Must think I'm getting old!

 

[WestT]

If you've done the legwork and all the research then C is by no means entitled to join you on a regular basis. While the location is available to him due to the fact that it is "our" public land you would hope that he has high enough standards to respect your efforts. If ultimately push comes to shove, we only get to go around once, don't waste your time on someone who is less than desirable to be around and degrades from your experience. We get enough of that anyway. Grab A & B and make the very best of it. Sometimes we just have to make tough decisions and it sounds like leaving C out is the right one for you. Good luck...

 

[1_pointer]

There's a learning curve on things like this.

For me personally, if I hunt with someone on a public land spot they found, I never go back unless:

1. I'm invited.

2. I call and ask them if its OK.

The absolute last thing I would ever want to do is show up in a spot a friend has shown me and have them hunting the same area...I would feel like an idiot if that happened.

I've also made it a new point, that I don't take anyone to a spot that I find on public land unless I don't care if they go back unannounced.

If its a spot I want to keep to myself, I hunt it solo or with immediate family.

This!!! And an addendum, I do not pass along the info of the area I'm shown. I didn't figure it out or find it, so it's not my information to give out.

PS- I'm glad Buzz considers me family...

 

[mplane72]

The way I read all that you found the place and took friend C there the next year. He has no claim on that place at all and in fact would be in the wrong to go there without talking to you about it before hand.

 

[BOHNTR]

I'm with Buzz on this one.

 

[Festus]

Buzz's post needs to be made a sticky!!
Words to live by...

 

[2ski]

I guess the way I'm reading it, is C wants to be included on the hunts. Not go by himself or take other people. He thinks you guys are all hunting buddies and that you will take hunting trips together. I guess I don't see the situation having anything to do with public land. Its a friend that wants included on his "friends'" trip.

 

[shoots-straight]

There's a learning curve on things like this.

For me personally, if I hunt with someone on a public land spot they found, I never go back unless:

1. I'm invited.

2. I call and ask them if its OK.

The absolute last thing I would ever want to do is show up in a spot a friend has shown me and have them hunting the same area...I would feel like an idiot if that happened.

I've also made it a new point, that I don't take anyone to a spot that I find on public land unless I don't care if they go back unannounced.

If its a spot I want to keep to myself, I hunt it solo or with immediate family.

This was how we worked things growing up. You would not dream of going in an area someone else took you without the invite. We also expected to be treated the same when we take people on a hunt. I've had harsh words for family members that showed up (uninvited) with other people. They knew better and should have respected me.

 

[brownbear932008]

I do agree with Buzz. If someone takes you to a spot you ask them if you return without them. Had a good friend asked me a few years ago and I really respected that decision he made. He had a great hunt as usual in the area and didn't take a bunch of new guys.
In your situation there is no doubt with what I read and your feelings toward C that you will not truly enjoy your hunt with him going so leave him behind and get in his feelings. Not an easy thing to do.

 

[JDH]

I guess the way I'm reading it, is C wants to be included on the hunts. Not go by himself or take other people. He thinks you guys are all hunting buddies and that you will take hunting trips together. I guess I don't see the situation having anything to do with public land. Its a friend that wants included on his "friends'" trip.

Another aspect to go with this is whether you feel friend C is using you to do all the planning and won't carry his own weight or does he truly not realize he's not the best travel companion.

 

[hank4elk]

I guess if I had friends this would be a problem......or is it I don't have that problem because....?

I have a handfull of folks I will share some info with and it's usually a spot that they already know the area or when each is hunting it or if they are.
I never share my honeyholes. Made that mistake 30 yrs ago, and my go with hunting buddy list shrunk to a hand full.Reality sucks.

Maybe it's just the luck of the draw,but I did not draw my favorite off radar elk unit this year and several friends and a couple folks I don't know did. I drew it for deer tho and will be sharing notes with 2 friends on scouting. One is an outfitter who also has 3 hunters. We tell each other if we will be in specific area,or nearby. We trust each other it's that simple.
I get heads up on whats what this year and he gets same. We tease each other with pics and guess where this is bets.

Now the other 5 hunters will get solid advice and I find out if they are real. 3 have already asked about spots they found on maps and have gotten solid advice.
The others,well, I'll see them on the road,in camp or at the cafe,maybe. I know the calls will come....

I just started humming my theme song,"I Hunt Alone" by George Thoroughgood.................lol

 

[Jwill]

...as long as they keep their mouth shut.

lol

 

[beagle001]

Thanks for the input. Thought it would be good conversation, and it also validated all of my thoughts, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being ruthless.

 

[Hunting Wife]

There's a learning curve on things like this.

For me personally, if I hunt with someone on a public land spot they found, I never go back unless:

1. I'm invited.

2. I call and ask them if its OK.

The absolute last thing I would ever want to do is show up in a spot a friend has shown me and have them hunting the same area...I would feel like an idiot if that happened.

I've also made it a new point, that I don't take anyone to a spot that I find on public land unless I don't care if they go back unannounced.

If its a spot I want to keep to myself, I hunt it solo or with immediate family.

This precisely sums up my position on the issue as well. The one or two people on the planet that I will share a "secret" spot with share this mentality. They in turn have taken us out a few times, and we've never been back to the spot nor disclosed the location to anyone else.

In your scenario, I get that you don't want to take C back there with you guys in the future. But are there other hunts you guys are willing to do with him? Or is it that you just don't want to do travel hunts with him period? I think it makes a difference if you're telling him we want to keep this hunt for ourselves, but we can find another place that can be "our" (C, you, and whoever) trip, vs. we don't want to do hunting trips with you at all. Might mean the difference between keeping or losing him as a friend. Depends on how you feel about the friendship as a whole I guess.

 

[Irrelevant]

I have a couple friends that sound like C. I typically either don't mention I'm going on trips that I don't want him to go on, or tell him it's someone else's trip and I just got invited, or the very first time I mention it for the year I go out of my way to lay it all out there.

Are you guys all friends or are you the center of the wheel and the "spokes" aren't friends with each other? If that's the case I politely throw someone else under the bus. BFF really just want to do a small trip to a new area. I'll report back what we find...