Primary mike lee?

[406dn]

I don't think Senator Lee is worried, at all, for his political future, with this move. He recognizes that this is the moment to make this move.

The GOP holds very narrow margins in both chambers, making EVERY member more powerful, in getting something they really want to accomplish. The GOP is avoiding a Senate filibuster, by putting it into a reconciliation bill.

Make no mistake, many other GOP senators, would do the same with their state's public land, if they felt as safe politically, as Lee does. They are waiting for stars to align. It might never happen for them, but it could.

None of this surprises me, particularly. I first became aware of the Sagebrush rebellion, in the 70's. Likely there was a movement, well before that. The western GOP has been wanting this for a long long time.

People vote as they will, but when you get what you voted for, it should not be a big surprise.

 

[SAJ-99]

… too liberal for the republicans and way too conservative for the dems in the state.

Rinse and repeat in a lot of places for a lot of positions. Not being able to vote for a reasonable person you might disagree with on some things leads to electing bat-shit crazy. The only way to primary Lee is to find someone more conservative but less of an asshole. Better chance of finding a unicorn.

 

[Treeshark]

To most of the people whom Mike Lee represents, he’s probably viewed as doing a great job on this issue.

 

[Wildabeest]

To most of the people whom Mike Lee represents, he’s probably viewed as doing a great job on this issue.

Polling shows that most Utahns are against PLT. That’s why the state did a massive advertising/disinformation campaign (using taxpayer dollars) in a feeble attempt to change people’s minds on the issue.

 

[Treeshark]

Polling shows that most Utahns are against PLT.

That may be true, I really don’t know- the fact that this guy got elected and seems to want to again in the future leads me to believe otherwise.

I don’t think we actually know much of anything based on that recent poll (assuming it’s the same one @Big Fin posted previously).

The wording of the questions being asked was very clearly crafted in a way to elicit that outcome.

 

[Wildabeest]

That may be true, I really don’t know- the fact that this guy got elected and seems to want to again in the future leads me to believe otherwise.

I don’t think we actually know much of anything based on that recent poll (assuming it’s the same one @Big Fin posted previously).

The wording of the questions being asked was very clearly crafted in a way to elicit that outcome.

In advocating on this issue in UT, I’d say most people are very poorly educated on the issue. Especially non-hunting recreationers. They have no idea that Mike Lee wants to sell off the land they are hiking or biking on. I typically get the “Oh, is that what those billboards are about?” response, followed by “But it seems like they are trying to protect these lands for us, not sell them off.” Then they get scared and politely walk away when they see my blood pressure going thru the roof.

They re-elect him every term because he’s a well funded hard right conservative, not because they agree with his stance on federal public land.

 

[Treeshark]

In advocating on this issue in UT, I’d say most people are very poorly educated on the issue.

I don’t doubt you at all on that point, and unfortunately that is not unique to Utah.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I don’t think we actually know much of anything based on that recent poll (assuming it’s the same one @Big Fin posted previously).

There is evidence thats credible, that you dont like. No evidence exists to prove your point - yet you assert it - inspite of the only proof that exists.

To most of the people whom Mike Lee represents, he’s probably viewed as doing a great job on this issue.

You have some wild ability to just patently ignore facts you dont like. Are you a staffer for mike lee? You seem uniquely qualified.

 

[Treeshark]

There is evidence thats credible, that you dont like. No evidence exists to prove your point - yet you assert it - inspite of the only proof that exists.

You have some wild ability to just patently ignore facts you dont like. Are you a staffer for mike lee? You seem uniquely qualified.

I steer as clear as possible of political discussion on HT, but if you saw my voting record would feel quite differently.

I absolutely do not support what he is attempting to do, but that doesn’t change my opinion regarding that poll.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I steer as clear as possible of political discussion on HT, but if you saw my voting record would feel quite differently.

I absolutely do not support what he is attempting to do, but that doesn’t change my opinion regarding that poll.

No evidence exists for you to say those residents are in favor of PLT.

 

[Treeshark]

No evidence exists for you to say those residents are in favor of PLT.

Yep that’s true, I don’t know that they in fact are. I think it’s fairly obvious that the poll showing they are against it was deeply flawed though, so it’s hard to say either way.

 

[SAJ-99]

I absolutely do not support what he is attempting to do, but that doesn’t change my opinion regarding that poll.

The poll is fine. You can pick apart like any poll. I have never seen a poll that resulted in the support of PLT that wasn't terribly broad, vague, or suspended reality.

Example: here is the online poll from the American Lands Council. I want to believe in unicorns and pots of gold at the end of rainbows too, but come on. It's like the set of questions was designed to be asked at the state Rep convention.

-Do you believe that all states should be equal in their ability to govern their own lands and resources?
-Are you satisfied with the way federal agencies have handled issues such as the environment, species protection, and energy development?
-Do you believe that the solutions to America's problems can be found in Washington D.C.?
-Do you feel that state and local governments do a better job at protecting liberty and encouraging economic vitality than the federal government?
-Are you happy with the direction that our country is headed?
-Are you willing to take a role in bringing about statehood equality through empowering local and state governments in the West?

 

[Treeshark]

Excellent example of precise wording to get to a desired outcome there too, @SAJ-99.

 

[Matthew57]

I have a friend in Utah that’s been brain washed to be in favor of PLT and I’m trying to convince him otherwise. Some people just don’t like anything with the federal government attached to it. Even things that obviously benefit them. About all he does recreationally is shoot so some lines of reasoning fall somewhat flat with him. “But the feds own 2/3 of the state” is repeated over and over like it’s a bad thing.

 

[Treeshark]

“But the feds own 2/3 of the state” is repeated over and over like it’s a bad thing.

I can kind of see the reasoning behind that though- one can certainly make the case that state or county ownership would be better for residents of those states if one could guarantee future public access (one can’t, unfortunately).

That’s not the outcome at stake here though- it’s more likely to be Federal vs private.

 

[SAJ-99]

Excellent example of precise wording to get to a desired outcome there too, @SAJ-99.

You can see what's avoided - any question on $. That is why Lee is going with the direct sale approach rather than the transfer.

No one is going to create the survey like this...
- Do you support the transfer of federal public lands back to the states?
- Do you support a one-time tax on state residents to effectuate payment of the land at fair-market value?
- Do you support an increase in ongoing taxes to make the management of those lands budget-neutral?

It's all about money. Everything in America is about money. I hate that it is, but it is. Here is a potential survey on Montana mule deer licenses. You can't even start a conversation on the topic until the answer to the second question is over 55%.

-Do you as a R support reduction in number of deer tag issued to NRs?
-Do you as a R support paying more your tag to make the reduction in NR tags revenue neutral to FWP?

 

[BearLakeHunter]

I don’t doubt you at all on that point, and unfortunately that is not unique to Utah.

I agree. This is not an issue that is important to the majority of Americans. They are either aware of it and place it lower in priority or they are uneducated about it and default to not caring. In the end, I hope enough of us are loud enough to make a difference.

 

[mtmuley]

It's all about money. Everything in America is about money.

Yep. And hard to overcome in any situation. mtmuley

 

[Bonasababy]

Hes taken his lumps regarding false, ugly tweets following the targeting shooting and killing of Democratic officials in MN early Saturday morning. It takes a lot for that party to jettison support of one of their own these days, however.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

Hes taken his lumps regarding false, ugly tweets following the targeting shooting and killing of Democratic officials in MN early Saturday morning. It takes a lot for that party to jettison support of one of their own these days, however.

You’re consistent, I’ll give you that.