Preferred Pronouns

[EKYHunter]

From Mathew 22 34-40
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Seems to me when it all really boils down to it its pretty simple. If you can do these two things then everything else should fall in line. Of course the world is chaotic and nothing is that simple. But it should be.

I don't have anything to add on pronouns. Does it even come up unless you were to refer to someone in the third person. Not sure the applicability In a two way conversation. If I'm aware someone has a preference or a sensibility one way or another on a range of things I try to be courteous. Of course this is all work related when I'm on my ps and qs anyways because I'm there to earn a paycheck. If this somehow ever comes up in my personal life I will be courteous as well.

Yes, it is pretty simple but not always simple to live out. Not sure how anyone can read the Word and conclude that homosexuality, abortion, adultery, murder, etc are not sin. The Word is very clear on these and all subjects really. The problem is folks want the Word to fit their life and not have their life fit the Word.

 

[EKYHunter]

Sadly, many Christians seemingly believe their personal readings of the Word are superior to those of other educated, sincere and prayerful Christians who may disagree. To sincerely and spiritually disagree on an article of faith is not sugar coating, weakness or perversion. But of course centuries of christian wars does re-affirm that this is a problem for us - one that does not bring others to the faith.

Which scripture tells you that homosexuality is not a sin?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

BTW, IPA's are beer, not flavored water. Athletic Brewing does not make bear, they make a unique style of LaCroix. So in that regard, I'm not surprised you don't love them.

Honestly they really have a unique product, I've tried cutters/odoul's/sharps etc... which are god awful. I came in with super low expectations and was wildly surprised. Especially the sours, it's a legitimately better sour than a lot breweries make.

 

[Irrelevant]

Honestly they really have a unique product, I've tried cutters/odoul's/sharps etc... which are god awful. I came in with super low expectations and was wildly surprised. Especially the sours, it's a legitimately better sour than a lot breweries make.

That's like comparing different flavors of dog sh!t. . .

 

[longbow51]

That's like comparing different flavors of dog sh!t. . .

OK, @willm, you do those drinks, @neffa3 you do ...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That's like comparing different flavors of dog sh!t. . .

Did buzz hack your account again?

 

[TwistedSage]

Not sure how anyone can read the Word and conclude that homosexuality, abortion, adultery, murder, etc are not sin

That is not what I was inferring at all. Not sure how you got that point out of the quoted verses.

Jesus did not push away Mary Madeline for her prior life choices. Again not justifying anything just showing what his ways were which is what Christians should strive for right?

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

Hey all. Neither the OP nor most of the posters on this thread are looking for a bible study regarding sin in the eyes of God. If, as Christians, you want to want to debate the bible and the teachings therein, please take it elsewhere. We're getting a little into the weeds here and well away from the original point of the discussion.

 

[EKYHunter]

That is not what I was inferring at all. Not sure how you got that point out of the quoted verses.

Jesus did not push away Mary Madeline for her prior life choices. Again not justifying anything just showing what his ways were which is what Christians should strive for right?

You are 100% correct. I was just trying to say that some folks today seem to be more interested in making people feel good as opposed to preaching the Word.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Which scripture tells you that homosexuality is not a sin?

This isn't the place for fulsome debate on this topic - there are library shelves (probably even libraries) filled by religious scholars more informed than either of us trying to fully understand how the NT and OT fit together, how to address apparent contradictions in the text, when is it ok for Christians to leave some teachings in the past (and even the most vehement literalist does in fact ignore specific instructions of the Word), how does the church fully welcome women into fellowship, etc. I suggest folks do some reading from authors they would typically disagree with - it is a great way to learn and understand.

But incredibly briefly . . . . I view the Word through the lens of Christ's primary themes - love, forgiveness, grace, universality, humility, service to others, support of the outcast, and dis-assembly of centuries-old manmade institutionalized religious teachings that served purposes other than that of these themes while arbitrarily favoring a small select special group of believers. When I reach a passage that is in conflict with these primary themes, I scrutinize it more carefully. I am just not convinced that the ostracizing of a sub-set of god's children whom are acting in the manner they were created and doing so in a way that harms no others based on two or three verses out of tens of thousands and in the face of thousands that speak to the need for understanding and love makes the cut of what Jesus called us to do as Christians.

I say this fully aware that some Christians absolutely disagree with my view. But on what authority can any person substitute their reading over mine - to assume they alone speak for God. Just as Luther rejected the supremacy of the Catholic pope, I reject the supremacy of one single modern flavor of Christianity that has a very loud voice but doesn't appear very Christ-like to many of us.

I am now tapping out on theology.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Hey all. Neither the OP nor most of the posters on this thread are looking for a bible study regarding sin in the eyes of God. If, as Christians, you want to want to debate the bible and the teachings therein, please take it elsewhere. We're getting a little into the weeds here and well away from the original point of the discussion.

I agree that religion can make for tough discussions and may not have interest for many. But one cannot seriously discuss "the pronoun police" without considering the faith-based presumptions that really drive this conflict. That being said, I am tapping out on that line of discourse.

 

[Tiredofthebickering]

I agree that religion can make for tough discussions and may not have interest for many. But one cannot seriously discuss "the pronoun police" without considering the faith-based presumptions that really drive this conflict. That being said, I am tapping out on that line of discourse.

Agreed, and I personally addressed it in terms of my personal beliefs several times already. I just want to avoid falling into the trap of applying personal religious beliefs to a broader group of people who don't follow such beliefs. Besides being irrelevant to non-practioners, debates about specific definitions of sin should be had elsewhere

 

[okie archer]

Hopefully I can explain something I have noticed.
It seems to me like rules/laws in our world are respected, absolute, and seen as black and white with the exception of God's law. Then suddenly people say "Well, I see it and translate it differently than you when it's in plain sight. One verse says the scripture is of no private interpretation, meaning it does mean one thing for some and different for others.
I would say most on this site are for ethical, legal hunting and strongly dislike poachers. So when the law states for example not to shoot a deer from a motorized vehicle, I think we all can plainly understand that and would be in support of fining the guilty suspect to fullest extent of the law. Most people on here are ready to throw the book at them because the written law was broken.
Same with the IRS. There are tax codes that we must follow wether we like it or not and the laws are the same for everyone, no two ways of looking at said laws.
Many folks work for companies that have rules, the rules are easily understood if you read your company manual and everyone is expected to follow the rules and many times the ones who don't are looked down on by fellow employees.

Cities have ordinances,
State game & fish have laws,
Corporations have policies,
IRS has tax codes,
The constitution has laws,
Sports have rules,
Highways have speed limits,
Just a few I could think of. The rules are usually plain and apply to everyone. So how is it when it comes to God's law folks want to twist it to fit themselves when it's very plain on what is written?
If scripture says for a man not to lay with a man as with woman kind what is so difficult to understand about that? That's just one of many examples.

Ecclesiastes 12:13,14
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 11:9
Rejoice , O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou,that for all these things God will bring thee into judgement.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decided: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Christ died for the entire world not just for Christians. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. To say otherwise is to literally call Jesus Christ a liar for he said himself he was the only way.
I think Christians get labeled as a lot of things when in reality a true Christian has read the manual and knows the consequences so when the Christian sees the sins of our world and the destruction it's going to bring, they in love want to say hey your headed to destruction but there is a way out!
You would think that if your neighbor was asleep in his house and it was on fire that your neighbor would want you to go beat on the door and do everything in your power to wake him up and get him out.

 

[Irrelevant]

Not gonna lie, "true Christians" have always been my #1 reason to avoid organized religion.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Hopefully I can explain something I have noticed.
It seems to me like rules/laws in our world are respected, absolute, and seen as black and white with the exception of God's law. Then suddenly people say "Well, I see it and translate it differently than you when it's in plain sight. One verse says the scripture is of no private interpretation, meaning it does mean one thing for some and different for others.
I would say most on this site are for ethical, legal hunting and strongly dislike poachers. So when the law states for example not to shoot a deer from a motorized vehicle, I think we all can plainly understand that and would be in support of fining the guilty suspect to fullest extent of the law. Most people on here are ready to throw the book at them because the written law was broken.
Same with the IRS. There are tax codes that we must follow wether we like it or not and the laws are the same for everyone, no two ways of looking at said laws.
Many folks work for companies that have rules, the rules are easily understood if you read your company manual and everyone is expected to follow the rules and many times the ones who don't are looked down on by fellow employees.

Cities have ordinances,
State game & fish have laws,
Corporations have policies,
IRS has tax codes,
The constitution has laws,
Sports have rules,
Highways have speed limits,
Just a few I could think of. The rules are usually plain and apply to everyone. So how is it when it comes to God's law folks want to twist it to fit themselves when it's very plain on what is written?
If scripture says for a man not to lay with a man as with woman kind what is so difficult to understand about that? That's just one of many examples.

Ecclesiastes 12:13,14
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgement, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Ecclesiastes 11:9
Rejoice , O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou,that for all these things God will bring thee into judgement.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decided: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Christ died for the entire world not just for Christians. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. To say otherwise is to literally call Jesus Christ a liar for he said himself he was the only way.
I think Christians get labeled as a lot of things when in reality a true Christian has read the manual and knows the consequences so when the Christian sees the sins of our world and the destruction it's going to bring, they in love want to say hey your headed to destruction but there is a way out!
You would think that if your neighbor was asleep in his house and it was on fire that your neighbor would want you to go beat on the door and do everything in your power to wake him up and get him out.

My apologies to others, but I am compelled to offer an alternative narrative.

1. I can find 100 trained pastors that agree with me and you can find 100 trained pastors that agree with you. That does nothing to embolden your reference to a single reading - one that you presumably and conveniently intend to mean "your reading". What if my reading is correct and yours is not? If you can't imagine such a thing then you speak from arrogance, not love of Christ. As a human with flaws, I accept that there are likely flaws in my reading. I don't trust others who don't offer the same humility.
2. No one is calling Jesus a liar merely by disagreeing with your personal reading of the words of the OT and Paul (your cites) - these aren't even the words of Christ.
3. John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8 are pivotal concepts to many of us that cannot be just kicked to the curb and replaced with a list of other requirements for salvation.
4. There is nothing loving about claiming moral superiority and refusing to acknowledge the sincere beliefs of other Christians. You don't save your neighbor by hating them, shaming them and (at least in the past) killing them if they disagree with your personal reading of things.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Not gonna lie, "true Christians" have always been my #1 reason to avoid organized religion.

Behavior by people within the church has been the #1 reason for two of our girls to avoid/stop going to church.

 

[hank4elk]

Jesus Mary and Joseph, I think I see rain?

Thank you Ma Nature.

I'm out.

 

[EKYHunter]

Jesus Mary and Joseph, I think I see rain?

Thank you Ma Nature.

I'm out.

Severe thunderstorms with 60 mph winds at my house. Think I’ll hit the lake after it passes.

 

[Dougfirtree]

@neffa3 I know this might jeopardize our friendship... but I recently switched entirely to Athletic Brewing.

I have to say pretty damn impressed.

Downwinder and Cerveza are quiet good, Upside dawn is a 3/5 but decent all things considered. I still haven't tried their IPAs yet.

I'm so ashamed, but I've been drinking their IPA and I really like it.

 

[hank4elk]

I'm drinking RAIN!
I never got into the whole non alkie beer deal when I quit 35 years ago.

Real men drink well water and black coffee! You can call me , MR. Joe.