I never said to abandon principles. i was explaining to you how government inefociency and ine
Sounds like you think he has gotten away with alot over the decades. Might be something to that ...
Catching poachers is already incredibly difficult. Violators are rarely caught during their first incident. I don't know but it stands to reason.
So lets take a guy who is not wealthy but is able to scrape up enough to buy a nice piece of hunting land, put money and work into improving the habitat there, but does not live on the land...in PA.
Why would the game warden not call the land owner to inform him someone is poaching on his land?
So you think game wardens should just walk around private land spying on people until they decide they must be poaching?
No surveillance "spying" should accompany a warrant which it almost always does. Have there been instances where it was taken too far, sure. Throw the case out if its found LE is violating the 4th amendment. But I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Handle things case by case.
An absolutist would find COMPLETE sovereignty on private land, I simply want the constitution to be followed and for the safeguard of judicial review to be applied as intended BEFORE allowing access on whims. There are many laws in place to combat poaching....FFS, there are basically no consequences applied to any of them. The more appropriate approach would be greatly increase penalties and bring the hammer down, send people to prison. The value of ANY game animal is within felony levels of theft in all jurisdictions.
While Open Fields does not eliminate the NEED for probable cause, it ABSOLUTELY does ignore that need as it allows for trespass. In the situation you describe I believe a simple call and gaining PERMISSION would accomplish access. You (or anyone) is always free to grant access to anyone you WANT on your land.
Firing a gun on private land has zero nexus to poaching outside other information....I shoot on private land much MORE during non hunting season periods (as do many) and in NO way should be any type of invitation for access. As for your first paragraph, why would you want to wait for probable violations instead of using the provide review process PRIOR to search? What would you propose the remedy be for those wronged? Investigations are necessarily, always handle "case by case" in every legal proceeding of any sort.
I think your arguing with an anti hunting liberal troll. Where i elk hunt, a guy owns a square mile of elk canyon. He shoots machine guns out there year round. Does that mean he is killing hundreds of elk per day? Is he killing more elk during, or out of season with his machine gun fire?
You wouldnt last 5 minutes in wyoming. Im lost at your lack of legal understanding. Shooting guns, which is constitutionally protected, is not evidence of a crime. Never will be. Here in Wyoming where we dont need a police escort to go hunting, people shoot year round, morning, evening, day, night, supressed, unsupressed, full auto, select fire, semi auto, everywhere. State land, federal land, private land. Thats just the way it is. Many people hunt varmits year round. So really there is no "gunshots out of season" additionally, July is the only month in wyoming without a major hunting season. It does still offer varmit hunting, wolf hunting, and in some areas mountain lion hunting in july. Heres something that will really explode your head: we only have one game warden for areas that are almost 100 miles across. Unfortunately we do get people who move here ocasionally that are the type to call the police when they hear someone legally shoot. Those people usually come to the understanding wyoming is not for them and their houses sell within 6 months of them moving here. You need to be open minded and understand the real world is not like watching bonanza where everyone who is not your friend is a criminal that needs to be hung.
I have sat from a distance on this one. PA resident. And I have mixed thoughts on this.
Yes it allows access. For anything other than probable cause supported fish and game violations though it prevents any real action taken on anything found on the land.
Do you realize that you just contradicted YOURSELF? "Yes it allows access." and " remove access when cause is PRESENT." ......"any real action"? Open Fields has NOTHING to do with cause, usurps probable cause and allows literal fishing/hiking/trail-caming expeditions (DEFINITE actions in furtherance of LEO activities) without restraint. Allowing free reign to LE (and I am a prior LEO and retired Fed Special Agent) simply because it involves game is outrageous. Your position could not be much more big brother, big government and is a bit scary. What is there to be AFRAID about? You mean other than trespassing, invasion of privacy and an invitation for harassment? Watch some of the "Wardens" shows and see what goes on in some states. Wardens trapsing through the woods during hunting seasons, on private land, often on opening days to "check licenses", "make sure there isn't any baiting going on" etc......you don't have to be "afraid" of something to want nothing to do with it. Especially on your own land and during a very limited time frame. It is clear you are ok with rights being violated because you somehow believe they aren't as important to you as some "boogeyman" type occurrences of poaching.....but please don't say that you are Libertarian of any sort.....
The short way to say this is you dont make any sense, your not impressing anyone, and you do not understand the us legal system.
I have heard this less then I have seen it. What I have seen is a generation of wardens who didn't grow up in the outdoors or hunting. DEI hires so to speak including a feature article in the local news of a warden hire who had never hunted. And it was not highlighted as a negative. I think there in lies the issue. How do you make discretionary decisions in the field if you cannot understand intent or how one goes about even doing what it is you are regulating. I certainly do not want to turn this into a warden bashing thread. It is not their fault. They applied for a job and were hired after minimal training. Anyone who has ever hired anyone from a trade school knows exactly what I am talking about. On average the kid that went to a trade school after being around or involved in the trade is light years ahead of the kid that played video games and became a welder.
You say I don't make sense and I don't understand the US legal system yet I was the only one that mentioned the legal term curtilage and brought up the fact that the US Supreme Court has upheld the the open fields doctrine in more than one case. States have a right to stricter laws under dual sovereignty. That's fine, but when it comes to open fields, to me thats a bummer because more poaching will go unprosecuted. I hope @Big Fin makes some content on the open fields doctrine I think it would be very educational.
You have yet to present a single fact. Only your paranoid opinion.
