New points theory

So for those of us that procreated to late, how do we work within a system (or systems) that can give our "creations" a chance we had as young hunters? I personally don't understand why the Zim's of the world wouldn't be okay with a system that allows their 25 points to be 25 names in the hat every year until they draw or kick the bucket. Hunters with no points would have 1 name in the hat, but have a chance. Eventually, points peter out (not including hunts with high numbers of max pt holders and few tags). What is so bad about that?

Mostly don't let the secret out that if you take advantage of the youth hunts that some states offer and choose hunts that your kids can draw with low numbers of points, they can do a lot of fun hunting while the old codgers argue about a handful of high point hunts.

QQ
 
Mostly don't let the secret out that if you take advantage of the youth hunts that some states offer and choose hunts that your kids can draw with low numbers of points, they can do a lot of fun hunting while the old codgers argue about a handful of high point hunts.

QQ
I totally get it, and I do just that for my kid (Idaho is a great place for a kid). But as an example, when I was a new hunter we drew Region G or K(maybe it was "J") at least every other year and could draw pronghorn on the west side of Wyoming every year we applied as NR before points became a thing. Now those are 5 to 9 years.
 
So for those of us that procreated to late, how do we work within a system (or systems) that can give our "creations" a chance we had as young hunters? I personally don't understand why the Zim's of the world wouldn't be okay with a system that allows their 25 points to be 25 names in the hat every year until they draw or kick the bucket. Hunters with no points would have 1 name in the hat, but have a chance. Eventually, points peter out (not including hunts with high numbers of max pt holders and few tags). What is so bad about that?
It seems to me there are states/draw systems that should make everyone happy:completely random, hybrid systems, squared points, preference points, bonus points, OTC, 2nd draw, leftover. Apply for tags that fit your situation best. All states might not be right for you.
 
For example: my dad drew a unit 40 deer tag in Idaho 3 times in 7 years, how is that fair.
Buddy drew a certain bull tag twice in 4 years, wife hasn’t drawn it 0 for 5…..
Now with a 5 year wait that gives someone else a chance to draw that tag….
I totally think Random is the way to go, just longer waiting periods for both residents and non-residents
Matt
 
It seems to me there are states/draw systems that should make everyone happy:completely random, hybrid systems, squared points, preference points, bonus points, OTC, 2nd draw, leftover. Apply for tags that fit your situation best. All states might not be right for you.
That is not the point of this thread. The point of the thread is how to fix a system that many of us feel is broken. If you don't feel the system is broken, this thread is not for you.
 
I do actually have 24 deer pts in Ut and Nev. Max deer pts in Az. Would trade them all for a Strip or Pauns rifle tag. With all the pts I have, may still never draw one of those while I can still hunt.
You would trade 24 points for a Strip or Pauns rifle tag? You, me and everyone else!

The Pauns rifle tag has 448yrs worth of applicants and the Strip has 692yrs worth of applicants. But I guess since you’re 24 years into your 448+ year journey, you feel like you earned it.
 
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Completely Random and 5 year waiting period on anything “antlered”?
Matt
There are tags that ain’t worth a five year wait period. I’d be 100% fine with a multi-tiered system for wait periods. Just as Utah has general deer, limited entry deer, and premium limited entry deer, I’d be fine with “no-wait” grade hunt codes, a “5yr wait” hunt codes and “o-I-l” hunt codes. All on the same app. You don’t have to put all three different classes on your. You could do all three choices with o-I-l hunts, or mix with o-I-l and 5yr wait, or all three choices 5yr wait codes, or make your third choice a no-wait code. Draw o-I-l and that whole list of codes is forever off limits for your applications. Draw a 5yr wait, and for 5yrs you cannot apply for any code within that class, but can still apply for o-I-l or no-wait class codes.
 
You would trade 24 points for a Strip or Pauns rifle tag? You, me and everyone else!

The Pauns rifle tag has 448yrs worth of applicants and the Strip has 692yrs worth of applicants. But I guess since you’re 24 years into your 448+ year journey, you feel like you earned it.
I would trade ALL my deer pts ( Az, Ut, Nev) for one tag.
 
I would trade ALL my deer pts ( Az, Ut, Nev) for one tag.
You’re up to less than 90. Still feel like you you’ve waited your fair share of 448 years? You haven’t and neither has anyone else.

Not that it should be allowed but would you trade all of your points in every state for every species?
 
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You’re up to less than 90. Still feel like you you’ve waited your fair share of 448 years? You haven’t and neither has anyone else.

Not that it should be allowed but should you trade all of your point in every state for every species?
Was just making a statement. I am very well aware of the the pts required for each state and the units I listed. I just didn’t expect such animosity.
 
There are tags that ain’t worth a five year wait period. I’d be 100% fine with a multi-tiered system for wait periods. Just as Utah has general deer, limited entry deer, and premium limited entry deer, I’d be fine with “no-wait” grade hunt codes, a “5yr wait” hunt codes and “o-I-l” hunt codes. All on the same app. You don’t have to put all three different classes on your. You could do all three choices with o-I-l hunts, or mix with o-I-l and 5yr wait, or all three choices 5yr wait codes, or make your third choice a no-wait code. Draw o-I-l and that whole list of codes is forever off limits for your applications. Draw a 5yr wait, and for 5yrs you cannot apply for any code within that class, but can still apply for o-I-l or no-wait class codes.

Nope…. otc/leftover tags for the 5 year wait…
Matt
 
Nope…. otc/leftover tags for the 5 year wait…
Matt
Then almost no one will buy those tags and even more pressure will get placed on the more desirable tags. Also, there are a lot of people hunting in only one or two states other than their home state because they can go on some of the less desirable hunts almost yearly. Put a five year wait on it, and do you think they’ll go five years between hunts, or just add more states? Once they’ve added more states how have your draw odds improved?
 
You’re up to less than 90. Still feel like you you’ve waited your fair share of 448 years? You haven’t and neither has anyone else.

Not that it should be allowed but would you trade all of your points in every state for every species?
Was just making a statement. I am very well aware of the the pts required for each state and the units I listed. I just didn’t expect such animosity.
Yep, I would trade all my points in all states for one tag of each species in Az or Ut. Would clear a LOT of pts for deer, antelope and elk in 5 states. I am not even including sheep, goat and moose in this plan.
 
Yep, I would trade all my points in all states for one tag of each species in Az or Ut. Would clear a LOT of pts for deer, antelope and elk in 5 states. I am not even including sheep, goat and moose in this plan.
Not one tag for each species. One tag total. All points. All states. All species. One tag for deer. I don’t believe it should be allowed, but that’s the question I asked.

It’s not intended as animosity toward you. It is pointing out that the “points required” isn’t 24, or 26, or 35. Those number apply to the lucky few who got in the system very early on AND went hunting somewhere else instead of in whatever state they have so many points in. When the number of people applying exceeds the number of tags 450x-750x, no one can draw by waiting their fair share of time. No one is entitled to that tag.

Yes it would clear some points, BUT can you imagine the whining when someone with 27pts in one state gets permanently locked out by guys with 15-20pts in each of 5-6 states?
 
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If you’re not sure if you want a point system, here’s a great test. Take the length of time it would take to clear all current applicants, and if you’ve drawn a tag in that timeframe, you can’t apply for your first POINT until that time period has elapsed.

Example-NM currently has 38yrs worth of elk applicants. If you have drawn an elk tag in the previous 38yrs, then you may not begin building points in NM until 38yrs have elapsed. Still want a point system?
 
If you’re not sure if you want a point system, here’s a great test. Take the length of time it would take to clear all current applicants, and if you’ve drawn a tag in that timeframe, you can’t apply for your first POINT until that time period has elapsed.

Example-NM currently has 38yrs worth of elk applicants. If you have drawn an elk tag in the previous 38yrs, then you may not begin building points in NM until 38yrs have elapsed. Still want a point system?

Yes, because that's not how it works.

QQ
 
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