MT EQC to determine corner crossing as "illegal"

[Eric Albus]

I personally think that we would be better off working to make the legally accessible lands have the same quality as private/landlocked lands. That would solve this issue, for the most part. I realize there are some who simply want access to all lands held in public trust.
I grew up a public land hunter. I can understand the angst of corner hopping. When I was young, & gung-ho I’d have led the charge to corner cross. Now that I’m a bit older and dumber, I think that if we make the accessible as good it will solve the problem a whole lot easier than fighting each other.

 

[Dave N]

We are looking into what we can do. It’d mean a substantial increase in R license costs.

 

[Eric Albus]

View attachment 409198

It was to a lot of the other representatives in Helena when I dare to mention the thought.

 

[DFS]

I personally think that we would be better off working to make the legally accessible lands have the same quality as private/landlocked lands. That would solve this issue, for the most part. I realize there are some who simply want access to all lands held in public trust.
I grew up a public land hunter. I can understand the angst of corner hopping. When I was young, & gung-ho I’d have led the charge to corner cross. Now that I’m a bit older and dumber, I think that if we make the accessible as good it will solve the problem a whole lot easier than fighting each other.

I’m going to disagree, public lands are invaluable and stepping across a pin does no harm. I worry about the repercussions when the political atmosphere changes though. I come from a ranching family and can show you public grazing allotments that are hammered every year when the adjacent private isn’t. I don’t think opening this can of worms is a good thing for ranchers. Depending on how things go it could potentially lead to a lot more trespassing.

 

[Eric Albus]

I’m going to disagree, public lands are invaluable and stepping across a pin does no harm. I worry about the repercussions when the political atmosphere changes though. I come from a ranching family and can show you public grazing allotments that are hammered every year when the adjacent private isn’t. I don’t think opening this can of worms is a good thing for ranchers. Depending on how things go it could potentially lead to a lot more trespassing.

I do not know where u live or ranch, but appreciate your perspective. I agree, there isn’t much damage to stepping over a corner stake. There is the issue of legality and airspace. Used to be when you bought private land you owned from the center of the earth as high as one could see. Then came the lawyers, surface vs. mineral, airplanes needed airspace, etc.. Landowner rights have been chipped away at, both “public landowners” and private owners.
This is a subject I do not take lightly, and do not want to have to take sides. I’m grew up a public land hunter and at heart will always be, however I’m a private landowner.
I want a SCOTUS RULING on this subject. It’s above my pay grade.

All this aside, we band together and stop the infighting of the hunting community, quit pitting public land vs private, everyone against the outfitter, and sit down find common ground. We can make the hunting in Montana good again. It’ll mean giving on both sides and I think both sides have more in common than not.

 

[MTGomer]

I don’t think corner crossing is illegal and I don’t think there’s a role for the legislature to play to “allow” or “ban” it.

The legislature can’t tell me I cant eat tacos on Tuesday, glass private land elk from a county road, or do any numerous other activities, so how can they decide that I can’t walk on BLM land in a certain manner?
They MAYBE could pass a law that says state trust land isn’t accessible via corner crossing. They have no jurisdiction over BLM land.

It seems like a legal theory question for the courts. The 10th circuit says it’s legal and SCOTUS felt that ruling lacked controversy enough that they wouldn’t hear an appeal.

 

[Hem]

It’s pretty simple, in Montana, ranchers, farmers, and bigger landowners are the chosen ones, anointed by god. No one else does anything or is as important. I grew up in that atmosphere as a rural MT ranch kid. Once you realize this everything else falls in place as far as understanding all this BS

Thanks for making the observation.
I have thought this for a long time.
Though I excuse the multi generational ranchers. They started small but figured out how to be prosperous enough to buy the neighbors who failed. Its a common theme in the history of Montana. They busted their ass for what they got. The arrogance could be toned down a bit.
All the other wealthy riffraff can pound sand.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I’m going bag 10 corners this fall.

 

[antlerradar]

Arent you the one always telling the world wyoming has it all figured out? For some reason - it apparently mattered there as well.

I agree with @bigsky2 that WY in general has management figured out. I think it is a mistake to think that quality had nothing to do with the MO hunters hopping a corner or two. They 100% were looking for a better quality hunt. Better quality hunting on public land would help with the friction between landowners and sportsman. Eliminate the issues, no but ease them yes. I can still remember the 70's when the quality of hunting on public was just as good or better than the private, back then just about all private land was open to sportsmen with just a handshake. Leasing didn't start until after the winter of 78 and the low deer numbers prompted hunters to pay for exclusive access to private land. Hunters will always seek better quality hunting and some are willing to pay for it. Increasingly poorer quality hunting is one of the driving forces behind commercialization of wildlife and why people are willing to pay way too much money for a hunting property. People can argue that poor quality doesn't matter to them, but in reality the cost is steep.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I agree with @bigsky2 that WY in general has management figured out. I think it is a mistake to think that quality had nothing to do with the MO hunters hopping a corner or two. They 100% were looking for a better quality hunt. Better quality hunting on public land would help with the friction between landowners and sportsman. Eliminate the issues, no but ease them yes. I can still remember the 70's when the quality of hunting on public was just as good or better than the private, back then just about all private land was open to sportsmen with just a handshake. Leasing didn't start until after the winter of 78 and the low deer numbers prompted hunters to pay for exclusive access to private land. Hunters will always seek better quality hunting and some are willing to pay for it. Increasingly poorer quality hunting is one of the driving forces behind commercialization of wildlife and why people are willing to pay way too much money for a hunting property. People can argue that poor quality doesn't matter to them, but in reality the cost is steep.

I think Wys game management is better by most metrics, i wasnt trying to say otherwise.

Those hunters still wanted access to public - in a state that many would agree is managed as one of the best for hunting. The desire for access corner locked property has a lot to do with the relatively recent ability to see exactly (within a few ft) where you are standing.

I agree - poor hunting causes more people to look for alternate solutions. Its also true that people will always want better even if good is available. Is there a state/unit where you think leasing/outfitting/hunting rentals arent happening?

 

[Hammsolo]

I do not know where u live or ranch, but appreciate your perspective. I agree, there isn’t much damage to stepping over a corner stake. There is the issue of legality and airspace. Used to be when you bought private land you owned from the center of the earth as high as one could see. Then came the lawyers, surface vs. mineral, airplanes needed airspace, etc.. Landowner rights have been chipped away at, both “public landowners” and private owners.
This is a subject I do not take lightly, and do not want to have to take sides. I’m grew up a public land hunter and at heart will always be, however I’m a private landowner.
I want a SCOTUS RULING on this subject. It’s above my pay grade.

All this aside, we band together and stop the infighting of the hunting community, quit pitting public land vs private, everyone against the outfitter, and sit down find common ground. We can make the hunting in Montana good again. It’ll mean giving on both sides and I think both sides have more in common than not.

What are the negative effects on private land when a corner is crossed? Are there negative affects from private to private? From State to Fed? What do you mean when you say there isn’t “much damage?”

I am a private land owner. My property in Montana butts up against private and National Forest Service. I have corners my neighbors cross.

As a man of faith and science, understanding of the world has changed our thinking. We live on a sphere and in the Universe.

 

[Hammsolo]

Thanks for making the observation.
I have thought this for a long time.
Though I excuse the multi generational ranchers. They started small but figured out how to be prosperous enough to buy the neighbors who failed. Its a common theme in the history of Montana. They busted their ass for what they got. The arrogance could be toned down a bit.
All the other wealthy riffraff can pound sand.

I am close friends with a multi-generational rancher in Eastern Montana. He is protective of his land for many reasons. Just a few examples are morons showing up at 4 am, and others “thinking they can just buy anything.” He prides himself on being self-reliant and can’t be bought. He’s not arrogant.

It’s a long story to be told over coffee or beer about how we became friends. However, it came down to a slow grow built on respect. I showed him who I was. Yes, I’m blessed to hunt his place in the fall, and shoot yotes and prairie dogs in the summer. I also share Bible verses each day with him and drink coffee with his wife. It’s about more than hunting. It’s about relationships.

I think the problem is that hunting/access has become to transactional and thought of purely as a resource.

 

[Eric Albus]

I am close friends with a multi-generational rancher in Eastern Montana. He is protective of his land for many reasons. Just a few examples are morons showing up at 4 am, and others “thinking they can just buy anything.” He prides himself on being self-reliant and can’t be bought. He’s not arrogant.

It’s a long story to be told over coffee or beer about how we became friends. However, it came down to a slow grow built on respect. I showed him who I was. Yes, I’m blessed to hunt his place in the fall, and shoot yotes and prairie dogs in the summer. I also share Bible verses each day with him and drink coffee with his wife. It’s about more than hunting. It’s about relationships.

I think the problem is that hunting/access has become to transactional and thought of purely as a resource.

You are so correct.
Most people have have plenty of time as evidenced by their campers and boats to skip a weekend or two at the lake and go build a relationship with a land owner.

 

[mtmuley]

You are so correct.
Most people have have plenty of time as evidenced by their campers and boats to skip a weekend or two at the lake and go build a relationship with a land owner.

I have some landowner relationships that go back about 50 years. Started with my Grandfather and now my kids are continuing the relationships with the new family member owners of the land. Probably not common, but you can maintain a landowner relationship over time. mtmuley

 

[Big Sky Guy]

What are the negative effects on private land when a corner is crossed?

That private land loses exclusive access to the corner-locked public land.

To the landowners argument about legalizing corner crossing resulting in an increase in the amount of legitimate trespass I have no doubt that is true as of all the corners I've crossed I have yet to find one that is not out of the way and usually adds significant elevation loss/gain and I know hunters with less fortitude than myself will just take the easier way the terrain dictates OR the temptation of a large antlered critter will be too great for them to resist trespassing and if caught would claim they crossed at the corner. However, when taking a step back there are A LOT of roads that have been built over the years that has resulted in similar behavior from unscrupulous hunters. Not sure the increased trespass can be quantified other than it will increase.

 

[Rack Daniels]

That private land loses exclusive access to the corner-locked public land.

To the landowners argument about legalizing corner crossing resulting in an increase in the amount of legitimate trespass I have no doubt that is true as of all the corners I've crossed I have yet to find one that is not out of the way and usually adds significant elevation loss/gain and I know hunters with less fortitude than myself will just take the easier way the terrain dictates OR the temptation of a large antlered critter will be too great for them to resist trespassing and if caught would claim they crossed at the corner. However, when taking a step back there are A LOT of roads that have been built over the years that has resulted in similar behavior from unscrupulous hunters. Not sure the increased trespass can be quantified other than it will increase.

WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANY LANDOWNER THINK ITS OKAY TO HAVE EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO ANY PUBLIC LAND!?

 

[MTTW]

All of the landowners around here that aren't leased out and allow some public hunting have so many noses firmly planted in their ass that there isn't room for another if I was so inclined, which I am not.
The bad blood between landowners and the public is earned by both parties involved in my experience.

I won't be wasting my time on relationship building with landowners any time soon.

I do hope that corner crossing is found to be legal because it will give a lot of people a place to go other than where I am at.