More trouble in AZ

[danr55]

Gunner, When did you ever post anything in humor? Your description of "apathetic" is way off the mark. You need to spend more time listening and less time insulting people. I bet you get lots of exercise jumping to conclusions..

What right or authority would any of us have to threaten to void the federally granted grazing rights for any of these ranchers? That would certainly be effective. Sending a letter with a threat that we have no means to enforce... Ha!Ha!Ha!

 

[BuzzH]

Danr,

A good start would be for you to quit being about the biggest freaking hypocrite in all of AZ.

Danr does this sound familiar, "WHAAAA, USO took the permits away from me and gave them to Nonresidents....hey, I got some great NM landowner tags for sale!"

What kind of message does that send? Ha!Ha!Ha!

 

[JoseCuervo]

DanR,

I am sorry for suggesting you were "apathetic", as based upon you pimping the New Mexico tags, you are not apathetic, but instead, you are part of the problem.

Thanks for helping sell out the opportunity to hunt public wildlife.

 

[cjcj]

Gunner I don`t hunt out of state, never have. So i am not familiar with "land owner tags" so i plead ignorance, but as for the Wagon Bow ranch you could not pay me to hunt on that parched out dry windy piece of shit they call a scenic ranch! that is a joke they have been trying to sell that "wasteland" for years!and if you have seen it as i have, you would know what i mean, while there are some decent spots aroud Wikeiup [santa maria river] is about the only place with life sustaining water, Kingman is a windy dry old railhead along I-40 and if it wasn`t for the freeway it would be a ghost town.i`m sure there are some ranches to be concerned about but the Wagon Bow and Silverado [next to it are worthless]

 

[Ithaca 37]

What you guys in AZ need is some advice from MD4me, Ten Bears and their buddies. They'll tell you to be reasonable, try to get in the middle of the road, don't be extreme like me, Buzz and Elkgunner, remember-----all the poor USO is trying to do is create jobs! Maybe you should find a compromise with the USO. Whatever you do, don't take any firm position and say, "NO MORE" like Ithaca, Elkgunner and Buzz are always doing. Always be willing to give away more of what little you have left in the true spirit of co-operation with everyone who wants to take it.

 

[Mntman]

Ithaca and Oak you make me laugh.
I am just offering options for getting input from people out there like you all.
I personally dont want any ranches around AZ to get landowner tags!
In Missouri they have landowner tags and most of the land here is private from what I've researched. We dont have a 1 million plus acre Tonto Nat forest to hunt on. We have to find someone to allow us the oppertunity to hunt their land.
I hope AZ never gets that way and G&F does something to make the ranchers(I use that description loosely)to understand that they are just renters and not very good or high paying ones at that. I would like to see all range roaches off AZ forest land and only raised on actual private land owned out right by those doing the raising.
If we could effect the leasing of forest land to these ranchers then why dont we do something about it?
Who in the govenrment and what office do we talk with sensibly (sp) to get this acomplished?
Again, just my $0.02

 

[1_pointer]

Mntman- You do have approx. 1.5 million acres of USFS land in one forest alone.

Mark Twain National Forest
Facts List

Total National Forest System (NFS*)acres:
1.5 million (approx)

Total inventoried roadless acres:
25,000 (2% total NFS)

Total Wilderness and
National Scenic Rivers acres:
78,000 (5% total NFS)

All other NFS acres:
1,366,000 (93% NFS)

*"NFS acres" means land in public ownership and
managed by the Forest Service. Approximately half the lands within
Mark Twain National Forest boundaries is privately-owned.

 

[JoseCuervo]

MNtman.

If you are serious about removing livestock from Public Lands, I suggest you start sending money to WesternWatersheds Project. It is ran by a man named Jon Marvel who has been incredibly effective in removing cattle off of Public Lands to the benefit of hutners and fishermen.

 

[Oak]

Mntman, maybe I misunderstood you. I took this

Also notify the AZGFD that we support them and wish them to not offer any land tags to anyone in this state with out strict LAWS regarding it not be sold or given away to anyone. Only their immediate family living on the land may use it.

to mean that you were willing to compromise on landowner tags, if there were strict laws regarding who got them. I'm just saying that I don't see one good reason to give them any tags, period. I'm sick of hearing the word compromise. Sportsmen always end up losing when the compromising starts.

Oak

 

[Mntman]

Oak your right, I was wanting AZGFD to not issue any tags to land owners BUT, if it came to that, I was hoping for a very strict law governing them.
I myself do not want them to have any!
Elkgunner,
Thanks for the info on WWP.

1_pointer, I'm confused?
You said we have 1.5 mil acres in the M.T. N. F. but then said 50% was privately owned!
Does that mean it is none huntable or accessable?
Thanks for any help in these matters.

 

[1_pointer]

Mtntman-

Total National Forest System (NFS*)acres:
1.5 million (approx)

*"NFS acres" means land in public ownership and
managed by the Forest Service. Approximately half the lands within
Mark Twain National Forest boundaries is privately-owned.

The way I read this, is that the land managed by the USFS is approx. 1.5 million acres and is open to everyone. BUT, that withing the boundary of the MTNF there is approx. 3 million acres, half of which are private. So, the fed. gov. owns/manages 1.5mil that you can hunt. How much is accessible I don't know, but a call to the office should get you some maps to let you know what you can get into.

Does that help?

 

[danr55]

I see Gunner and Buzz are playing tag team again.. Good. I love it when two minds work in concert..

Buzz, NM already has landowner tags and there is nothing to be done about it.. So why not make use of them? Mark and Gina are good friends and I would rather see these tags sold by the land owners, at a nominal price, to hunters than to outfitters like Taulman.

There is no hypocrisy in making the best of a bad situation..

 

[BuzzH]

Danr,

Last time I checked you dont make things better by promoting a situation you dont like.

I have nothing against landowners, nothing against guides/outfitters until they are GIVEN something for nothing. I guarantee if people quit buying those freaking landowner tags in NM the landowners wouldnt even want them. But, hey, if guys like you will peddle them for your friends, its a quick and easy way to make a few grand.

You are perpetuating the problem whether you choose to believe it or not.

I'm 100 percent against any state giving landowner or outfitter sponsored tags, always have been and always will be. This is a classic example of compromising your self and your ability to draw tags and hunt at a decent price, right down the f&*^ing drain.

If you like the crumbs, keep up the good work Danr, because thats about all thats left.

The coffee is burnt...

 

[Mntman]

1_pointer,
Thanks for the clarification on the land issue here.
I thought there were only 1.5 mil acres and not the true total of 3 mil acres.
That's why I was confused
I found an address to write to to get a booklet or maps on hunting in Missouri from the MO Cons District.
Thanks again for the help.

Other people,
I saw where someone posted about us argueing(sp) against each other and if PETA ever got a hold of it they would use it against us in these and other issues. Let's see if we could talk with each other through this forum without the name calling. We can still disagree and believe strongly in what we believe in without stooping to their type of lows.
Just my $0.02

 

[BuzzH]

Mntman said, "I saw where someone posted about us argueing(sp) against each other and if PETA ever got a hold of it they would use it against us in these and other issues"

What?

That line gets old and its worn out, to be honest.

Can you name a single thing that PETA has done lately to stop or limit hunting? Neither can I.

PETA is a joke, they have no credibility, no science backing them, and they are taken seriously by nobody.

As far as the infighting amoung hunters, thats life. Many of the things hunters fight about are worth fighting over. If the problems arent brought forward, they'll never get discussed, and ultimately never get solved.

I think its pretty healthy for hunters to see just how many problems landowners, outfitters, ATVers, etc. cause the average hunter. Its reality.

If you want to pretend that no issues exist in hunting, and that its all just a big happy, sunny, party in the park with bowls of noodle salad, thats your choice. However, that isnt the reality of whats going on. Whats going on is a fight for everything...permits, habitat, quality experience, etc. etc. etc.

I'm done compromising, done playing nice, I'm going to be as greedy as everyone else and look out for the average sportsmen. If that ruffles feathers....tough.

 

[cjcj]

Buzz playing nice!

Now thats an oxymoron! But i do have to [sigh] agree with you Buzz, time to get radical,rude, and ruthless! If thats what it takes to protect the right to hunt/fish etc.

 

[danr55]

Has anyone here ever heard Buzz come up with anything constructive? I've just read this entire thread and all he does is blast other people for things he doesn't agree with.

Then, it's Buzz, so who cares..

 

[BuzzH]

Danr, go peddle your NM tags...I'm busy writing your G&F director and commission with recommendations for unlimited LO tags in AZ.

 

[danr55]

At least you are doing something other than bitching about what everyone else is doing.. I guess that's an improvement..

 

[BuzzH]

Danr, At least I dont whine about LO tags in my home state and then support them in someone elses state...

I'm sure NM residents will return the favor to you in AZ.

By the way, I was just kidding, despite your hypocracy, I sent a letter to your Director and Commission asking them to not give a single landowner tag. I also made some recommendations on keeping a majority of the tags in resident hands.

I cant sell out my fellow sportsmen...something you seem to have very little problem doing.

You're welcome.