Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[brockel]

Them’s fightin words..

I thought I was generous with the boarder

 

[rogerthat]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

 

[Gerald Martin]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

Freaking Noresidents and MOGA, MCS Lobbyists (Ben Lamb in particular), guys that try to change the season structure, resident hunters that go West to East with 6 plates on their vehicles, and lions, woofs and grizzlies. Lots and lots of woofs. CWD, drought, and poor habitat. Oh, and billionaire landowners who don’t allow DIY access to hunt. ( also working ranchers who don’t allow access to hunt)

Basically, the only Montana has going for it is an OTC general license with a 5 week rifle season that encompasses the rut. We get that right. Everything else in the previous paragraph is why MT doesn’t regularly produce deer like in your picture.

 

[Gerald Martin]

As a side note, I spent a long weekend hunting elk in one of the most popular areas in region 3. I saw 12 bucks over the weekend and about 25?does. Only 6 of the bucks were spikes, 5 were forked horns and there was one old warrior troll 3 1/2 year old 4x4 that was at least 18” wide. Might have been 2 1/2 years old but for sure 18” wide with 4” tines.

MT has great quality deer available to hunters. I don’t know why everyone is complaining about the mule deer hunting in MT.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I know what isnt the solution - making hunting season even longer, not meaningfully reduce anyones opportunity, and privatizing more elk harvest. Much can be done about mule deer - but itd take a conversation with sacrifice. Ideally treating them similar to antelope - given they are comparably easy to hunt in a world with long range rifles.

A simple 2 week only general season from the existing date would have been a lot more palletable and ended on a date thats 2 days different than the "grand proposal" that was saving the world of montana hunting.

Seems - strange - that so much needed to change to do anything for mule deer?

 

[rogerthat]

Freaking Noresidents and MOGA, MCS Lobbyists (Ben Lamb in particular), guys that try to change the season structure, resident hunters that go West to East with 6 plates on their vehicles, and lions, woofs and grizzlies. Lots and lots of woofs. CWD, drought, and poor habitat. Oh, and billionaire landowners who don’t allow DIY access to hunt. ( also working ranchers who don’t allow access to hunt)

Basically, the only Montana has going for it is an OTC general license with a 5 week rifle season that encompasses the rut. We get that right. Everything else in the previous paragraph is why MT doesn’t regularly produce deer like in your picture.

Yes…and/or…. Could it actually be simpler? This buck and others like him, yes there are more, obviously not quite as big, don’t get shot rutting on their winter range.

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact. Opportunity is the goal in Montana Fact. However the point of my post is that there is an opportunity cost to everything.

I have seen a lot of arguments/excuses, MT doesn’t have the habitat, MT doesn’t have the genetics, all the bucks would get shot anyway, blah, blah, blah. When you rut hunt, seeing,interacting and maybe even hunting a buck like that is the cost. This can’t happen because they don’t exist. That’s my only point. Every state that doesn’t general rut hunt has a handful of these mega bucks. This is also a fact. I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[MTTW]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

Because we over hunt our mule deer bucks when they are at their most vulnerable. Everywhere, even LE areas.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes…and/or…. Could it actually be simpler? This buck and others like him, yes there are more, obviously not quite as big, don’t get shot rutting on their winter range.

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact. Opportunity is the goal in Montana Fact. However the point of my post is that there is an opportunity cost to everything.

I have seen a lot of arguments/excuses, MT doesn’t have the habitat, MT doesn’t have the genetics, all the bucks would get shot anyway, blah, blah, blah. When you rut hunt, seeing,interacting and maybe even hunting a buck like that is the cost. This can’t happen because they don’t exist. That’s my only point. Every state that doesn’t general rut hunt has a handful of these mega bucks. This is also a fact. I have seen it with my own eyes.

No. Montana has lots of mega giants and a rut hunt. Hunters are just lazy and need to lace up their boots and hunt harder. (Not fact).

 

[rogerthat]

Let me add, when I started this thread I thought Montana deer management needed to change. This thread has had a lot of good info posted. I have spent way more time than I should have thinking and studying something I will never have even the slightest control of. I have learned a lot. I’m not even sure I want the current season to change anymore after thoroughly and selfishly weighing the pros/cons of change. But to argue that an opportunity cost doesn’t exist is flat horsechit and doesn’t square with the reality you can see by getting out of the state and hunting other places. Hopefully that clarifies things before I get characterized as just another “trophy” hunter with an opinion that isn’t righteous like all of the rest of us taking our little kiddos hunting for meat.

Ps I got a couple kiddos (I call them trollocs) and they eat meat faster than a family group of starving coyotes.

 

[cgasner1]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

I wonder when the last time someone from a entirely different state spent and entire summer scouting a buck in Montana that was in a general unit.

 

[cgasner1]

I know what isnt the solution - making hunting season even longer, not meaningfully reduce anyones opportunity, and privatizing more elk harvest. Much can be done about mule deer - but itd take a conversation with sacrifice. Ideally treating them similar to antelope - given they are comparably easy to hunt in a world with long range rifles.

A simple 2 week only general season from the existing date would have been a lot more palletable and ended on a date thats 2 days different than the "grand proposal" that was saving the world of montana hunting.

Seems - strange - that so much needed to change to do anything for mule deer?

2.5 years later I still like our idea best you wanna know why? WE ARE STILL THE ONLY ONE. Everyone should do this or that or all these groups should get together yet no one has done jack shit. I wonder if more keyboards have been killed in this thread than deer at this point

 

[TOGIE]

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact.

Doesn't have to be a fact forever.

The name of the game in Colorado was OTC opportunity for decades. Many Colorado hunters absolutely shrieked like Low T Bozeman fly fishermen at the sight of a spin rod when the decision to go full limited and make rut hunting a special privilege in the 90's became reality.

Yet here we are

 

[rogerthat]

Doesn't have to be a fact forever.

The name of the game in Colorado was OTC opportunity for decades. Many Colorado hunters absolutely shrieked like Low T Bozeman fly fishermen at the sight of a spin rod when the decision to go full limited and make rut hunting a special privilege in the 90's became reality.

Yet here we are

Right. I don’t think I want it to change haha. Got two boys I want to take hunting someday. I think I probably came across as poor me which is totally not the case. Love the low t Bozeman reference!!

 

[brockel]

Right. I don’t think I want it to change haha. Got two boys I want to take hunting someday. I think I probably came across as poor me which is totally not the case. Love the low t Bozeman reference!!

Wait till they start sports and then try and find time to take them.

 

[rogerthat]

Wait till they start sports and then try and find time to take them.

I’m starting to kind of see that haha!

 

[MTTW]

I wonder when the last time someone from a entirely different state spent and entire summer scouting a buck in Montana that was in a general unit.

I knew someone who did it in 2017, 2018, and 2019. Not a specific buck but a specific area. He was moderately successful with a 180 buck in 17, a 200 in 18, and although he didn't kill a buck in 19, he did have film of a deer that I think was around 190 but he couldn't see several inline points through the spotter and didn't realize what it was until we were watching the film in the shop after season.

That said, 2019 was a different world than we live in now.

Crazy talk! I know.

 

[easternmt]

Just going to leave this here…….

Complex laws let 1,100 extra nonresidents hunt deer on Montana's public lands

Over 1,000 additional nonresidents can hunt deer on Montana's public lands this season, thanks to a law intended to restrict those licenses to specific private properties.

missoulian.com

 

[Irrelevant]

JFC...

 

[Treeshark]

Interesting article. I think the big takeaway was this part:

“Overall, Montana hunters account for just 24% of that total revenue, with the rest coming from out of state, according to Cooper.“

 

[mtmuley]

Interesting article. I think the big takeaway was this part:

“Overall, Montana hunters account for just 24% of that total revenue, with the rest coming from out of state, according to Cooper.“

Wow. Weird coming from you. mtmuley